Sunday, November 25, 2012

A Lost Cause

After a few weeks of silence, DH received a letter from his sister. At work, of course, since we all know that every one from his past tries to avoid me like the plague and it probably never would have crossed NSIL's diseased little mind to send it to our house. It was dated November 12, 2012, written on legal paper, and put in an envelope from the mental hospital in which NSIL stayed from November 6 - November 16. We have no idea why the letter took almost two weeks to get to it's destination - DH had it in his hands just as he was about to leave work on the 21st. In it, she made no reference to the letter that DH had sent to her, so at that point it still remained unclear whether she had ever received his correspondence.

Her letter read:

[Derivative of DH's name; not what she typically called him in the past],

I am currently in a mental hospital for attempted suicide. I figure you think I overdosed on drugs. I purposely took over 50 pills, mixed with a lot of alcohol, and slit my wrist. If not for a friend randomly stopping by, I would not have been found and would have died. I wanted to die, I really did. Wrote a letter and everything. I know part of you cares. Perhaps you noticed when we were younger that I had been struggling, mentally. I dealt with the [sic] bulimia until last year, when I began throwing up blood regularly. For years, I have dealt with depression. It increased greatly when you left. You left me alone. The depression the last 6 months has escalated. I got into every college I applied to. Graduated 30th with a 3.7. GPA. I went to [College] in [City]. My depression and anxiety overwhelmed me and I had to drop out. Mom and J were upset but supportive. Since that I've been in a downward spiral. No one understood me and no one [sic] that I felt like I could talk to. So I wanted to die. I was pretty close too. I am diagnosed with Bipolar disorder, depression, and anxiety. Everyone's brothers and sisters come to visit them here and it upsets me. Mom is constantly sad because you are gone and I am a disappointment and crazy. She cries all the time about you. I haven't, not once. I pretended you were dead. I tell people I am an only child. I miss terribly miss and need my big brother. You were my best friend. Would you even attend my funeral if I died? These are questions I ask. I even wrote in my suicide note that maybe my death would bring you back. I know there is still the old [DH's childhood nickname] in you. Think about our childhood. When I was born you wouldn't let anyone hold me. I need you to be there again.

- [NSIL] 

I'm going to start my analysis with the fact that NSIL sent this communication to DH at his office. As I mentioned, her effort to reach him smacks of secrecy and immediately reminded me of the rest of her FOO - always attempting to contact DH at work, in some cases when he has already specifically asked them not to, in other cases where any use of logic on their part would indicate that is NOT the way to go about getting in touch with him. (As we know, they aren't operating on all four-cylinders over there). As per usual, they all just want to circumvent Jonsi, in the hopes that they can divide and conquer and under the ever-present assumption that he's been trained well enough to keep things from me. NSIL's attempt to avoid me was as obvious as the rest of her family's prior attempts.

My thought is that this letter was part of her treatment plan during her stay at the mental health facility. I figure that, during the process of her intake there, she had given background information about her relationship (or lack-thereof) with her brother and the doctors working with her suggested that she write him a letter. Though I do sense that her letter is "real" in the sense that the feelings she describes in it seem genuine and that it is truly a place of very deep pain she writes from, I do wonder whether she would have written the letter at all if not for it being a requirement of her treatment. But whether she would have or not, the letter provided both DH and I with a concrete example of just how unhealthy his sister is and just how little hope she has of escaping the woman who's "love" is suffocating her to death.

When DH got the letter, he called me. My little ones were down for a nap so DH was able to open it and read it to me over the phone. When he got to the end of it, I told him I felt like I was going to cry, but I dove into my analysis anyway. I knew that this really wasn't my pain to bear, but the emotion just welled up inside of me anyway - I feel for this lonely, pitiful creature that DH's sister has been reduced to. I knew that, though her letter was full of guilt-tactics and manipulation and blame, she is also hurting and doesn't know how to fix it, any of it. And I felt for DH, who has to watch his sister drown, knowing he can't save her; who has been made their scapegoat; and who will probably never have a relationship with anyone from his FOO again. DH began to cry. He said, "I want to respond to this but not right now. I have to go." He hung up. I knew that he needed to respond, and that, in spite of my resolve to ignore these people, I had to let him.

That night, DH and I began drafting a response to her - with DH writing the main parts and myself adding analysis where needed. We worked on it together, wrote it together. The final result ended up a pretty fair mixture of my words and his, and I see no shame in that. In the days that followed his receipt of the letter, I spoke with my very dear friend, Upsi, and borrowed some key phrases from her that I thought fit in well with the message we wanted to convey. We edited it over and over again, clipping phrases, making changes, and rearranging paragraphs until it looked right. Sounded right. I knew, and I think DH knew, that was very likely to be the last time he would ever get to communicate with her and we both wanted it to be clear. And it was. And the more we worked on it, the angrier I became. DH will likely be posting his own thoughts and feelings on his blog when he has time, so I will speak for myself and say that as the hours wore on, nearly all of my pity for the girl was replaced with anger. Hatred, even. And I know I will have to let that go, it is already slipping away. But at it's height, I felt such hatred for this bitch who had tried to emotionally gut MY husband. I can only hope that NSIL will see DH's response to her letter. And I can't say I would feel particularly upset if NMIL saw it too, if all those fuckers saw it. Behold, DH's response: 


I received your letter dated November 12, 2012 today.   I’ve included with this letter the information I sent to you in a letter on November 5 and again in an e-mail November 18 because I have no idea if you got it.  I care about you and your well-being. I want you to have a better life.

I did not abandon you.  You were not mine to abandon. I have a family and they are my priority. I will not drop my wife and children to be your white knight.

If you are looking for someone to blame, start with your manipulative, controlling, fake, conniving mother.  She cheated on your father.  She lies to everyone she knows.  She called us names as kids.  Your mother taught you that your value lies in your looks alone.  She is the root cause of your emotional and eating disorders.  If you’re willing to consider that your mother is the enemy, then you will begin to see how fucked up she really is.  Then take a long look at yourself.  Do some genuine self-reflection.  I am not to blame for where your life is or where it is headed and I refuse to take responsibility for your feelings, our mother’s feelings, her choices, your choices.  I refuse to take responsibility for your feelings of abandonment.  I have made a choice to leave the unhealthy environment we both came from and have found a new, healthier way of living.  I am happy.  Do not blame me for your depression.  Do not blame me for your loneliness.  Do not blame me for the fact that you don’t feel understood.  Do not blame me for your emotional issues.  Do not blame me for your attempted suicide.  If you are telling yourself that I am dead and telling other people that you are an only child, then you are not living in reality.  It’s unfortunate for you that you feel you NEED your big brother to survive.  I will not have your blood on my hands.

You do not have to feel alone.  I once surrounded myself with hundreds of people too, hoping that in doing so, I would feel loved.  In reality, they were all parasites who did not love or care about me at all.  All they cared about was what I could do for them.  You are still surrounded by the people I got away from.  And that’s your choice. 

You want to talk about Mommie’s feelings?  Let’s talk about how I’ve never seen the sadness you wrote about.  Let’s talk about how she acts as though nothing has happened, like how she’s never done a goddamn thing wrong, like she never cheated on J, like she didn’t try to destroy my marriage, like she’s going to see me tomorrow.  She isn’t.  Those tears you say she cries all the time are crocodile tears.  They are fake.  They are a lie.  They are used to manipulate you into feeling badly for her.  Her sadness is no more real than your happiness.  It is not your fault if your mother is sad.  You are not responsible for her feelings.  Neither am I.  I will not tolerate her behaviors.  I will never have a relationship with her again.

“I even wrote in my suicide note that maybe my death would bring you back.” Are you saying that you were willing to kill yourself to make your mother happy?  Do you realize how fucked up that is?  Are you saying that you think it would make her happier to have me back even if you were dead?  That doesn’t make you question her motives?   Our mother would sacrifice one of her children for the other, has pitted us against each other, and has used us both for her own sick gain.  

-OR- was the suicide attempt itself a tactic of manipulation in which you were planning not to die, so that I would come back to rescue you and save you from a crisis.  Because, I don’t see how it would benefit you if I came back and you were dead.  The way I see it, either you want me to abandon my family and come save you, or, you are willing to sacrifice yourself to fix your mother’s problems.  Either way, you need the kind of help I can’t give you.

I cannot be there in the way you want me to.  I cannot save you.  You have to save yourself.  Even if I was willing to do what you are asking me to do, even if I was willing to be your possession, your big toy, your [DH's childhood nickname], that would not fix your problems.  I cannot fix your problems.  I choose not to be enmeshed with our mother any longer.  I have done a lot of research.  I am in therapy and will be for a long time because I am dealing with the severe emotional abuse I suffered at her hand as well as the unhealthy behaviors she passed down to us.

You want to know why you haven’t cried about me?  Because you are living in a kind of denial that will eventually destroy you. 

[DH's childhood nickname] is gone.  [DH's childhood nickname] was the part of me that lied and manipulated.  [DH's childhood nickname] was the part of me that was superficial, selfish, that chose to brush problems under the rug.  [DH's childhood nickname] was the part of me that was secretive, and pretended to forget in order to avoid consequences and accountability for my actions.  These behaviors are parts of you too and they came from our mother; she taught us to live that way, by living that way herself.  I will never be [DH's childhood nickname] again.  I am living in Truth.  For your sake, let [DH's childhood nickname] go.

You may have seen me as your best friend but it was because we were dealing with a very toxic situation together, rather than because that’s what healthy siblings do.  Our relationship with each other was warped.  By our mother.  But now you’re an adult.  Take responsibility for the fact that you’ve never reached out to me in a meaningful way.

If you want my advice: Create as much physical distance as possible between yourself and everyone else that you’ve ever known, especially your mother.  Take time to assess the emotional abuses you have suffered.  Get a job, save some money, and rent a place of your own.  Become self-reliant.  Get a new support system, find a therapist, and create the [NSIL] you want to be.  Or don’t, and live the way you’ve always lived.  The choice is yours.  I’ve made mine already.

The information I’ve attached to this letter could be life-changing for you if you’re willing to accept reality.

I have already asked your mother and her side of the family not to contact me.  It is not appropriate for you to send correspondence or to contact me at work.  It is not acceptable.  If you have any interest in communicating with me further, you must send a letter to my house, otherwise I will not be responding.  [NSIL], get help, get real, then we can talk.

- DH

And, for the first time ever, I decided to make my voice heard because I wanted NSIL to know that DH will no longer be her secret keeper and, more than that, that the bond he has with me can not be broken, no matter how hard she tries to pretend that I don't exist. I wrote, 


It is unfortunate you never took the time to get to know me. If you have been looking to find someone who wants to understand, you might have found it in me. I am not un-empathetic to your pain and I have never wanted to add to it.

In spite of the lies you have chosen to believe, I am not your enemy. If you would accept reality long enough to acknowledge that [DH] & I are happy together, and that we have a family of our own, you may get the opportunity to see that for yourself.

I love [DH]. And I want you know that his love for me & his children does not mean he stopped loving you.

He didn't leave you.

He married me.

In Truth,


DH put his letter and mine in an envelope. He also once again included his original letter and the list of Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers. He brought it to the post office on November 23, 2012 and mailed it certified mail requesting return receipt. He also once again sent an email to the only email address he knew of that she had. Our (yes our) email read: 

From: Email address we created just to communicate with NSIL
To: NSIL's still active email address
Date: Friday, November 23, 2012 @ 9:15 AM
Subject: Finally received your letter


I finally received your letter dated the 12th two days ago (Wednesday the 21st). I have a response for you that I put in the mail today. If you want me to send it to you via email, let me know and I will. I've tried several times to communicate with you in writing but I still have no idea if you have gotten anything.

- DH

That day, I also got the brilliant (I thought) idea to send NSIL an anonymous text, using (it really works, we tested it on my cellphone first) to let her know he had received her letter and had put a response in the mail. In that text, he wrote, "It’s your brother – finally got your letter. Sent response in mail today. Check [email address] and FB messages."

Within moments of sending that anonymous text message, she responded to DH's email:

From: NSIL
To: DH
Date: Friday, November 23, 2012 @ 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Finally received your letter

I have never gotten anything ever. Did you send it to [address of NMIL's house-for-sale]


We (yes we) responded:

From: DH
Date: Friday, November 23, 2012 @ 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Finally received your letter

Yes, I did. I sent my original letter to [Hospital] on the fifth. Then I asked them that if you had been discharged to forward it to [address of NMIL's house-for-sale]. It was also sent to this email address on November 18.


From there, things quickly took an abrupt turn that neither DH nor I expected. Upon getting a response from DH's email, NSIL immediately shot herself in the god damned foot be tweeting, "Communicating with my brother for the first time in two years..." thereby ensuring that everyone from her entire world would know that a move had been played. And then, after that? Nothing. And I do mean nothing. She has since thrown out a few popcorn-farts into the wind; a couple of very vague, passive-aggressive, possibly indirect references to DH, but other than that we have heard NOTHING. No response to his last email asking for more. No further questions. No request to see the letters he had written. Just radio-silence. Less than one half hour after making the declaration that the long-awaited contact with her brother had finally occurred, she tweeted, "juicy suits and ugg fur boots #princessprobs." And ever since that strategically-placed ever-so-vapid comment, she has gone back to denying her life away.

My thoughts? She has chosen to ignore DH the way she feels she has been ignored. I don't think she realizes that she has either DH and I as an audience and so I do believe that what she is tweeting is not being edited with us in mind. I believe that she has openly declared who's "side" she is on, and it's not DH's. I think that she has already begun to solidify the lies that will make her look like the good guy: that it was HER, and not DH who made the first contact; that SHE has been the one to "honestly" communicate, when she has in fact done the opposite and chosen not to have a dialog with him; that DH is the one who is lying and being cruel, when in fact it has been her. 

All I can say is, if she didn't like the first letter he sent (which we now know she received, as was proven when she responded from the same email address that DH sent his original letter to one week ago) she sure as hell ain't gonna like the second one. Or the one that I included.

And personally? I'm hoping that NMIL reads it too. Because I'm glad I've finally gotten a chance to make my voice heard; and that DH has so openly and honestly conveyed the following messages:

- that he will never again have a relationship with his suffocating narcissistic mother
- that he can access the anger required to break away, once and for all, from their toxicity
- that no matter what happens with his sister in the future, whether or not she ends up succeeding in the attempt she made on her life the first time, he will not be a part of her life.

NSIL is a lost cause for us. I know that I may now be seen as unreliable because in two of my previous posts, I declared how "done" I was with NSIL, but for the last time I will say: Our case of the "one more times" is over. NSIL, as she is now, is a hopeless undertaking. We have wrapped her up and stored her away in the same room as all the other narcissists from DH's past, where we'll be able to observe them safely from our side of the two-way, unbreakable mirror. I will move on quicker than DH will because I don't need to observe them in order to come to terms with my own dysfunctions, as DH has to. And with a lot of patience and practice DH and I will maintain that distance. Forever. Because we will no longer be putting our efforts into worthless pursuits: like trying to save suicidal sisters or communicate with power-hungry sharks. Instead, we are once again re-focusing on our marriage, on our family. These past few weeks have taken far too much of our precious energy away and it's time now, once and for all, to get back on track.

NSIL is toast. As far as I'm concerned, she can have her narc-mommie. They deserve each other.


  1. I'm really glad to hear that you have found some closure, Jonsi. I think you and your DH have done a gargantuan amount of work in drafting that(those) letter(s), and it was kind of you to do so. After reading about the response they elicited (or lack thereof!), I'm really reminded of the Biblical Scripture - "Don't cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot and turn and rend you!". Kara always kindly reminds me of that, and I think it applies here. :-) Keep your pearls for you, your DH, and your family, where they will be appreciated and put to good use! ;-)

    1. In the future, we will be doing just that, QG. Thank you for your support.



  2. Oh, fuck. I only read the first letter, and I swear I can't breathe. I'm going to have to take a moment before I read the rest. But, geez. It is so similar (and so triggering for me). And sad...and I hate to say it pathetic and mean. Does that make sense? That she would commit suicide in some deluded attempt to bring him back. That is such a fucked up thing to say. Childish, fucked up, and irrational. It makes her seem like a martyr, lays responsibility of her attempted death on him, and would make him guilt ridden for the rest of his life had she succeeded. And what a HORRIBLE thing to do to someone she says she loves. And it's all about HER, HER, HER.

    OK. I'm going to try to read more now.

    1. [[Jessie]]

      I know. I know. I'm so sorry that this was triggering for you - your latest post spoke to the same situation: the fact that you're being asked to rescue someone who is willing herself to die, slowly but surely. That you're being asked to rescue her at all. It's unfathomable. It's unfair.

      It makes perfect sense that you say it's pathetic and mean. It is - NSIL's letter was nothing but an attempt to tear DH apart, to stick a knife in his gut and twist and twist and never stop.

      I think she'll try again and eventually succeed in killing herself. No one can survive under the terms of her life. No one. She will wither and die, one way or another. We are choosing not to be around to witness it.

    2. OK, finished it all up. Damn, that's exhausting. It's interesting for me to read this, like an outside observer to my own life. It's actually kind of surreal. But helpful. So very, very helpful. It find it amazing that I can be so damn pissed off at NSIL's letter, yet my own sister triggers a lot of the same sadness that your DH is having.
      I will have more to say later, I want to reread all of this tomorrow. But, again, I do think that it was mean of her to lay all of everyone's problems on your DH. My heart ached for him. I know only too well how that feels.

      And for what it's worth, my sister has tried to kill herself (like actual suicide attempts) no less than 4-5 times. She also has placed herself in extremely dangerous situations, among dangerous people. She is an alcoholic who has been injured seriously many times under the influence of alcohol. But she keeps hanging on. I lived for years, (and still do) that the next phone call will be the one telling me she's dead. People can survive, and do, but it's a long, long, painful road. Much more painful to watch helplessly as someone tortures themselves over and over.

      Hugs to you both.

  3. The kid is a sad, fucked up mess...a train wreck waiting to happen. But you and DH didn't break her and I'm glad you realize it's not your responsibility to fix her. DH could lie down on the tracks but that train would roll right over him and still jump the rails.

    When my older brother grew up, got married and had a family, even though we had clung together through an abusive childhood, I never once thought he had abandoned me. I was pretty fucked up (still am) but I've never felt I OWNED OR OWED my siblings. Siblings are supposed to grow up and create separate lives!

    I'm so glad you have each other!

    Hugs, mulderfan

  4. Wow. I have to admit, this really opened up some stuff for me.
    Firstly, the blame thing was nauseating to say the least, outright blame thrown.
    Secondly though, I identified with too many different people. This was the hardest for me. I know my siblings and I have learnt manipulation to a tee, but I never saw the other side of that. Often, I've been the receiver of the blame and manipulative strings being pulled (that only family know exist, since they created it or watched it happen), but those that I MYSELF have pulled, thinking back, how utterly dispicable I was.
    I know this knight in shinning armour, too well. I waited most of my life for them. Finally I realised to protect myself, because when everyone walks out that is all who is left, or the only one you have to deal with at least.
    Thanks for posting these letters, they are very strong and have made me much more aware of how I am to others, which is an irreplaceable gift. I can try to stop others hurting me, but I am ABLE to stop hurting others in retaliation or learned behaviour. That's a lot of what just clicked in my head.
    So thanks again.
    I'm sorry this comment is about me, I just felt the need to share how....sane maybe, and clear focused those of you and your DH's communications are.

  5. Ok admitting I haven't finished reading your post. Bit could not wait to say this:

    When I've been suicidal ( and I barely was aware I was at the time), I hid it from those I loved. I'm not saying that's how all suicidal people present, just saying that there's a drama cry for help and real intent to leave this world.

    Your NSIL's letter reads like a cry for inappropriate attention, not like a real suicide attempt. The whole "a random friend passed by" this makes me angry.

    I'm not saying your NSIL isn't troubled. I'm saying she is an apprentice puppeteer following in the footsteps of her mother.

    Yuck, Jonsi. If I were you, you and your DH should stop tracking this girl. List cause is right IMHO.

  6. Mon Dieu. "Mommy-Dearest" was too threatening a target to send that letter to, so she sent it to DH instead (Displacement: Over-all Theme, IMO.) I hope DH can see her letter in that context.
    "Letting Go" is not the same as "Giving up." From my perspective it's really about Acceptance...of what is, of my own very real limits in terms of effecting a positive outcome for another (no mater how deeply I DO care for/about them) and allowing them the freedom and responsibility to live their lives on their terms regardless of how I feel about it or the disaster(s) I see looming for them.
    And it's been one of the greatest challenges of my life.

  7. I agree with so many comments above. I love what TW says about "acceptance". I've tried to explain it that way to my DH when it comes to my in-laws. I'm not "not trying" with them. I'm just accepting them for what they are. Selfish, self-absorbed, and unwilling to do anything differently.

    I agree with VR too, as this does seem to be more a ploy than anything. Not that she isn't fucked up. It is clear, both in the manner in which she made your DH responsible for all her problems and for her attempted suicide, but also in her deluded attempts to solve the problem.

    I am sad and angry about this situation. NSIL does have a sad life. I'm sad that she has been reduced to this shell of a person. I'm sad that someone has abused her so badly that she is that messed up. I'm sad that she is so naive, and childish, and dependent. I'm sad that she has been so mind-fucked. I'm sad that her mother can't look at her and see how fucked up she is, can't see past "boy" problems and other such shit. I'm sad that she seems locked in a death spiral with her mother. But I'm angry that she could blatantly hurt your DH, laying all her troubles at his feet, angry that she would expect him to just 'go back to the way things are'. Angry that your selfish MIL has fucked up her kids so badly, yet trounces around like she's a victim, angry she can see her children spiraling but makes up for it with haircuts, and spa days, and cars. That she cares so little about her own children to do something about it.

    By the way, I loved your letter. I thought it was wonderfully written and I'm glad that you got a chance to express yourself. The last part "He didn't leave you. He married me." is awesome. That is the point I've tried to get across to my MIL since I met her. She has always had it in her head that her "boys" would leave her when they got married. I never understood her twisted logic, and thought that rather than losing someone, she is GAINING someone. But, she didn't see it that way.

  8. I'm finally getting caught up on blogs - And WOW.

    I agree with everyone, don't want to beat a dead horse. I just absolutely think that whatever reaction NSIL is/was having, it is because of the EXCELLENT training she received at the hands of NMIL. Not that she isn't thinking for herself - but I swear in that letter I hear something like the rhymes we used to learn in school or the impossibly horrifying rote classroom sounds from a Nazi movie. She has been trained.

    She has been taught that jumping ship (like DH did) is akin to treason, and is punishable - she has also been taught that NMIL would rather have DH than have NSIL. I'll say it again - she has Stockholm Syndrome and the only way to reach her black little heart now would be a lengthy de-programming session (I'm picturing A Clockwork Orange *shudder*)

    All that to say that I don't think she even knows what her own feelings about this entire situation are. She (probably) doesn't even HAVE her own feelings. It is all puppeteer work. No wonder she wanted to die - she's exhausted from being NMIL's dancing monkey. But she has fast reached an age where she knows things are not right - like believing in Santa long past his expiry date. She keeps "believing" so that she doesn't have to think for herself.

    You guys are doing exactly right in staying safe, staying strong, and staying away. You did NOT appear weak or wishy-washy Jonsi, when you gave her a second and third chance. You appeared (to me) to be caring and empathetic.

  9. Jonsi,
    Thanks for putting these letters online for all to see. Like Jessie said "It's interesting for me to read this, like an outside observer to my own life." It's so helpful to read another ACoN's story and realize how much of it relates to my own situation. It helps to serve as a real (healthy) slap to the face when I'm stuck in the fog and can't find my way out.


  10. Jonsi,
    You and DH did the right things, are still doing the right things and will continue to keep on keeping on while doing the right things - for yourselves, your children, your family etc. - and I'm just super proud of you.

    It takes a massive amount of strength (and some luck) to get away from a dysfunctional family like this, and the precise ingredients of character that a scapegoat or golden child must possess or obtain in order to get out ... well, there aren't very many of us from any one NFOO for good reason. I have two siblings (one four years OLDER than me,) who were incapable or unwilling to get out, even when I continually threw them ropes. It sucks.

    But in the end, we all end up where we really want to stay. We save ourselves, or we remain unsaved.

    I'm sorry for the chaos and the hurt that you and DH have been caused and had to face. I'm glad you're changing your focus to moving on.


  11. Wow, oh Wow. Jeezbus F. Cheest. To see it in black and white the blame and the projection by the narcissist. I saw red and then white, so blinding is my anger on behalf of your DH and you. First the pity party (suicide attempt saved by random cosmetic event so she's still the center of the universe), then the blame (DH left her, not that he left to save himself), then the boasting (high GPA), then the victimhood (had to drop out of school), the blame again (everybody was supportive but DH), then the vindictiveness (pretend DH is dead, everybody is sad because DH quit being a scapegoat), and the best for last, the childish plea after she spent the entire letter bashing and abusing DH ("I miss you!")

    Fuck that was right out of the narcissistic textbook - yelling, moaning, and spewing out bile which serves as a burp, there now, all better. And because she feels better she expects DH to feel better too and go back (childhood) to behaving as if all that vile abuse didn't just happen.

  12. I think you're ALL truly horrible. I mean, if you two are so great and happy, why are you so happy to hurt and humiliate too? And all your readers here to cheer on the fight and the emotional beatings? What a nasty crew. I was looking for how to deal with a rather painful narcissistic/bipolar friend, but I won't be taking any tips from you. And by the way, all your "praise" of your kids that ur husband says you do can be a sign of a narcissistic parent ("I produce great kids so I'm great") and can produce TERRIBLE anankastic disorders in them.

    1. So you've decided that DH and I are big meanies after reading two of my posts and spending less than a half hour on my blog, and ten minutes on DH's? I see. Well. Thanks for "schooling" me in that regard. I'm pretty sure you were the one seeking out answers here because you don't have them. The answers you have found here, in however much you've read, are my answers and they've worked for me. I don't expect that they'll work for everybody.

      Good luck dealing with your narcissistic friend. I hope you find whatever answers you seek even if it isn't my particular solutions to these interpersonal problems that end up working for you.

      I'll have to go back and try to pinpoint where you found evidence, in the three posts you read (and the ten minutes you read them in) on my husband's blog where you seem to think he indicates that we lavish an over-abundance of praise on our children. I'm curious about your understanding of what my husband wrote.

      Best of luck Ruth.

    2. Not sure how a "meanie" like you remains so polite, Jonsi!

    3. If I didn't know any better, I'd say Ruth has something personal against you Jonsi.

      I'm at a loss as to how she came up with all her conclusions too. Nasty crew? I'm just a fellow blogger trying to figure out the answers too. I don't see anybody fighting. Just someone trying to work through their own questions about things.

    4. Sure seems personal doesn't it? It's hard to tell whether she was insulting the "nasty crew" because she wanted to get a rise out of just me, or everyone in our community. And since she ends on the accusatory note that I must surely be a narcissist, it seems like she's waged a personal vendetta.