Tuesday, October 23, 2012

Who The Fuck Died And Made You Mayor

For anyone who has been following the trail of devastation that fucked-up lady Charity left in her wake, you may be aware of the ongoing battle that has resulted in several recent skirmishes. I'm naming names because I'm tired of people like Caliban's Sister and Trisha making subtle insinuations about certain bloggers, then refusing to clarify who, specifically, they are referring to, before deleting their comments and rewriting history to suit their own needs. I'm tired of Cali's moralizations and shoulds and wrist-slapping. I'm tired of her speaking for Charity and for offering up non-apologies when people have told her they felt "scolded" by her. I'm about to do what I do best in an effort to unravel the recent spin and to share with anyone who feels like reading precisely what my stance is.

For me, I began to take up issue with Cali when she started settling into her Mayor-routine a-la "everybody save Charity from the onslaught" on Upsi's post, Most Humane. On that post, she left the following comment:

[October 6, 2012 @ 10:56 AM] Hi everyone. Upsi especially. I do want to defend Charity, despite the week of pain she caused for you, Upsi. She is struggling terribly hard right now, after having called the Child Protective Services on her son, and having his pregnant teenage daughter removed from his house. She made the hard and right call on that, but feels terribly guilty. Both her parents were/are (mother still alive) evil and horribly abusive to her. She's trying to get her medications for depression and various other stress related things sorted out. She's struggling terribly, and feels like a raw nerve. I feel deep sympathy for her at the moment. I know if she'd had a few more nights sleep she would never have written that post on Upsi's blog. That she saw what she'd done, stepped forward to do the right thing, knowing she'd incur incredible wrath and scorn, had to have been unbelievably hard. I know it is Upsi's hurt, now, to consider, and its up to her whether or not to forgive. But I think it would speak well of us as a group of friends trying to help each other if we saw how badly Charity is hurting, how confused she is, how chemically out-of-whack she is at the moment, how tormented by her own demons, and finally, how completely remorseful her apology was, and gave her the chance to keep our friendship. If I made a terrible misstep like she did, and then owned up to it in order to spare Upsi believing it might be her own family member who wrote the post, I'd be incredibly grateful to have some understanding and forgiveness. I've corresponded with Charity a little on email, and she is trying really hard to comprehend the reality of her life as a daughter, sister, and parent. She's had loss after loss after loss these last few years. Do you think we might let that mitigate a little the anger and distrust? I feel compassion of Upsi after the shock of the message. But I feel even deeper compassion for Charity, who now has to pick up another set of broken pieces.

At the time, I didn't say much in response to this comment, though it made my eyebrow wiggle. But now? Well friends, why don't we just take this one apart before Cali decides to go back and delete it in the hopes that no one will ever have a record of what she said? I'm going to start with the following phrases: "but [Charity] feels terribly guilty," "She's struggling terribly, and feels like a raw nerve," "...how badly Charity is hurting, how confused she is, how chemically out-of-whack she is at the moment, how tormented by her own demons, and finally, how completely remorseful her apology was," "she is trying really hard to comprehend the reality...." What I see here, clear as day, is a boatload of phrases where Cali-Dear is talking for Charity, claiming to know how Charity feels. Guys, that's a huge red flag for me, and it's one I've seen many times before, from enablers across the board. Even if Cal really had been communicating with Charity privately, before, during, or after Charity's Attention-Seeking-Outburst-of-Insanity, and even if Charity had really communicated these things to her, it's simply fucked up that Cal then followed through on accepting responsibility of being Charity's spokeswoman. You know what? By this point in time, we'd already heard Charity's bullshit apology, and most of us didn't buy it; so hearing it again, through a third-party, was only going to change the minds of people like Trisha, Molly, Kitty, and CZBZ, who all, apparently, don't recognize when they're being manipulated more than a thirteen-year-old's peinerschnitzel. When I see someone talking about how "so-and-so feels this or that," I start wondering about what that person's MO is, what angle they're trying to take. Because no one speaks for someone else, no one offers up the feelings of another person unless they're after something. And it's now clear, more than ever, what Cali-Dear was after.

I do want to defend Charity, despite the week of pain she caused for you, Upsi. Maybe we should have just stopped reading right there, because once again, what I see is an enabler. What I see is someone waltzing in defending a person who knowingly and obviously caused a fellow human being pain. Maybe we should have stopped reading after this first sentence because the only place it could have possibly lead was to a god-damned trail of shitty excuses: I want to defend this person, even though she caused you pain, and here's why: Because she's been having such a hard time lately; because she hasn't had much sleep; because she's so 'chemically out-of-whack' right now, because she's so 'tormented by her own demons,' because her parents were so evil and abusive to her. And the list of excuses goes on and on, with Cali offering up wave after wave of pathetic and bizarre reasons to explain away the attack made by one (not-so-oddly silent) Charity. But what's more rattling to me than my thought that Cal was merely an enabler, is my thought that she's a power-hungry narcissist herself, who's been in cahoots with Charity for a while and has possibly been planning some sort of weird coup d'├ętat to overthrow Upsi's "dictatorship" over the ACoN community. That's right, I said it. If I could draw a line between Cali's original comments on the whole Charity Explosion and what she's saying right now, I'd be willing to place a bet that the starting-point for all of this was in Cal's desperation to be Mayor of ACoNville. And if she couldn't have it, she'd set her sights on "perching" on her own "branch of the ACon Tree" i.e. the "working toward healing branch." You know. 'Cause clearly that isn't the branch that the rest of us are sitting on.

I feel deep sympathy for her at the moment. For me, the implication here is that because Cal felt "deep sympathy" for Charity at that moment, we all should too; and that we should all let go of that "wrath and scorn" we all displayed, enough to "give [Charity] a chance to keep our friendship." According to Cal, our sympathy for Charity's supposedly shitty life should have outweighed our own feelings of betrayal, frustration, anger, and fear. According to Cal, we should have taken pity on poor, poor Charity, who lashed out in a "moment" of chemically-induced insanity and stopped talking about the incident so that Charity could come back and feel like everyone still wuved her. According to Cal, we should have not only taken her word for Charity's supposed remorse, but mitigated our anger and distrust with the idea that she was acting as some sort of self-appointed messenger between us and Charity. And to that, I say, "Cal? Who the fuck died and made you Mayor?"

I've corresponded with Charity a little on email...Um. So like, does this remind anyone of the Flying Monkeys and Enablers we've all known over the years? Who the fuck else initiates and maintains communication with the crazies and the abusers, and then makes constant attempts to get US to see the light about how fucking "sorry" the abusers are for doing whatever it is that they've done. It's true that I have a limited amount of sympathy for bullies and abusers. Ditto for the fucking flying rats that follow them around. And it seems to me that both Charity and Cali play both roles pretty fucking well.

The above comment from Cal was only the first of many. On that same post, she went on to say:

[October 6, 2012 @ 6:20 PM] Vi and Mulderfan, all due respect to you both--but Charity didn't "get caught." She confessed to doing it, because she was overwhelmed by shame at the thought that Upsi would think one of her family members wrote it. Please let's keep clear about how this went down. I'm not justifying what she wrote or did; but I don't want to see her nuked. She did take responsibility. She also explained what was going on in her head, with her meds. I have no dog in this hunt, except tempering the outrage with a little balance. I hope you all hear that I say this with respect. Can we try not to bond with each other by destroying Charity? That's how our families bonded together against us. OK?

Several bloggers commented on their feeling that the phrase "all due respect" was actually not respectful of their thoughts and opinions at all. To that, I would like to add that any statement which hinges on the word "but" (or any variation thereof) is one that usually ends up negating itself. So in the phrase, "all due respect to you both--but Charity didn't 'get caught...'" Cal was actually saying she did not respect their opinions. It read like this: "All due respect to you -BUT-here's why I don't actually respect your opinion." And on the notion that Charity "confessed" to the crimes she committed? I stand with those who said that her "confession" was nothing more than a pathetic, manipulative, and completely warped attempt to draw even more attention to herself; and that Cal was merely using all of it as a twisted means to an end.

And, be still my heart, is this more emotional-spokeswoman bullshit I see here: "[Charity] was overwhelmed by shame," "[Charity] did take responsibility." So, when fellow-bloggers expressed outrage at Charity's behaviors and then began to question Cal's motives for defending her, Cal's response was to ramp up her tactics: continuing to speak for the silent abuser, asking for the victim and her friends to "temper their outrage," cleverly masking her motives under carefully worded insinuations that we were all just a bunch of raging, narcissistic despots motivated by hatred and misplaced anger. And after all that, she asked, "Ok?" at the end, as though she actually gave a shit if we said, "No. You know what? It's not fucking ok."

Another comment from the same post:

[October 7, 2012 @ 7:03 AM] I hope you all will allow me as well to "process" in my own way. I did not accuse any one person of "nuking" anyone. I did not ever suggest that processing was not ok. I put in a plea for a little balance and compassion. I pointed out a potential danger of group bonding over a betrayal. This is a real danger, as any psychologist will tell you. I'm disappointed that my input was heard as a criticism of certain individuals. This was Upsi's trauma. It is Upsi's decision about whether or not to let Charity back in to her own blogging life. Those of us who comment here are all in various stages of recovery from having been betrayed, by FOO, spouses, friends, etc. I am at the stage where if someone fucks up big time once, and cops to it (even if a few days late) I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. All I was pressing for was tempering the outrage from those of us who were not Charity's target. This trauma belongs to Upsi. Respectfully ALWAYS. Cal's Sis.

I know there were many comments after this one, both on Upsi's blog, by Upsi, and by readers of Upsi's blog, that all seemed to indicate how dismissive this comment by Cal was, overall. In this comment, here's what I see: Someone who plays for victim status of her own by claiming that she felt attacked for not being "allowed" to "process" in her own way; someone who continues to hide behind her original vague accusations that certain people were "nuking" a fellow-victim; someone who insinuates that all or some of the rest of us are unbalanced and dispassionate; someone who claims that any (read: all) psychologists would back her views; someone who aims to make us feel bad by expressing her disappointment about how we misunderstood her; someone who tries to put ALL of the onus on Upsi for allowing or disallowing Charity back into our community (or, what Cal probably sees as "the community which Upsi leads but that which Cal would like to take-over"); someone who continues to push her own agenda on a group of people who disagree with her; someone who tries to pressure others into doing what she wants them to do. And, at the end of the day, someone who claims that all of those things are being done out of "respect." 

I did not accuse any one person of "nuking" anyone. Of course the bitch didn't accuse any ONE person of dropping the bomb. Because the citation of specific facts, particularly via the written word, lead to potential accusations of responsibility later. In other words, Cal rarely, if ever names names, because she may not be able to delete the evidence afterwards, and she'd rather her allegations be loose and vague so as not to blow her cover. In her world, it's true that she did not accuse any one specific person of nuking any other specific person. But in the real world, she in fact accused many specific people of nuking one very specific person. At the end of the day, she just claims that anyone's dissenting opinion is a result of their misunderstanding, rather than her deliberate miscommunications. She's all, "Eat my narc-shit and die, you ungrateful little bastards!" And we're all, "Excuse us?"

Can you tell I hate this bitch?

I put in a plea for a little balance and compassion. A plea? Really? She puts in a plea? For compassion and balance? From ACoNs? I mean, what is this bitch smoking? Most of the ACoNs I have met, spoken with, and confided in have been balanced and compassionate to a fucking-fault. I've never met a group of people so focused on being compassionate, empathetic, loving, and genuine, and who so often get taken-advantage of for it, in all my fucking life. But here comes Cal, "pleading" with them to offer up sympathy to a rouge crazy who had just attempted to beat a good friend to a bloody pulp, and asking them to "allow" her to process in her own way, as though we had any power over her processing-capabilities. I'm not saying I didn't see empathy from my friends here, because I did and I still do. But I find it repulsive for anyone to come along and imply that they were any less balanced and compassionate for siding with the victim of Charity's attack, rather than "poor, poor" Charity, or for daring to step-up and disagree with her spokeswoman. This was a set-up, and all part of what I now believe was Cal's bigger plan to begin alienating those who would side with Upsi, and not with her. Yes, her, the self-appointed Mayor of ACoNville. Not Charity, the just as fucked-up, but not the plan's brainchild to take over OUR Gotham City, nutbag.

This was Upsi's trauma. It is Upsi's decision about whether or not to let Charity back in to her own blogging life...All I was pressing for was tempering the outrage from those of us who were not Charity's target. On the one hand, Cali-Dear puts literally all of the responsibility on Upsi's shoulders for making the decision on whether or not to "allow" Charity back into the community; on the other, she attempts to control the feelings of everyone else, thereby staking her actual claim on the Power she seems desperate for. It's almost like she was declaring war by pitting herself against Upsi, declaring herself the moderator, and single-handedly dismissing every one of Upsi's "mindless followers." Cal completely set herself up as the yin to Upsi's yang, by maneuvering herself into a position where Upsi would be pitted against her, and our community would become divided. She includes herself in that list of people who were not Charity's target, merely as a means to fool people into believing she had ever been "one of us." My opinion? Cal's Sis has only ever been one for herself, which means she's alienated herself by raising herself to a superior position over the rest of us from the start.

And you know what? Even if I'm way off my fucking rocker on this one, suffice it to say that this shit pisses me off: I am at the stage where if someone fucks up big time once, and cops to it (even if a few days late) I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Even if Cal isn't on some crazy-ass power trip and hellbent on destroying Upsi, I'd grow a nut and then bet on it that Cal believes we're all supposed to feel the same way she does, which is, ironically enough, what she later claimed was Upsi's thang. In this phrase, I see someone who wanted her audience to give Charity the "benefit of the doubt" just because she was stupid enough to. Cal probably figured that the people willing to give Charity the benefit of the doubt would be the ones most likely to stick around if Upsi's "Great Empire" collapsed.

On October 7, 2012, Cal also wrote a post, titled "Something Sad" where she first went on in an apparent show of false-sympathy for Upsi before then diving into more pro-Charity, and subtly anti-Upsi rhetoric: "[Charity's] apology had excuses in it, but was also abjectly full of self-loathing and shame...I have been...asking everyone to temper their negative judgement of Charity a little, given that she really does seem to be a borderline personality. I worry that...we are too quick to completely dismiss someone when they make a bad mistake. I see many hard lines drawn, complete condemnation of this person who has stumbled so badly and exercised such terrible judgement. But Charity...decided to confess the truth in order to spare Upsi...This latter is getting lost in all the anger against the original letter and the subsequent deception about it... It's too early to know exactly the nature of Charity's remorse. Her confession was full of mitigations about her meds and confusion. It could and should have been put better, cleaner, with complete accountability. But it is a start, and I want to err on the side of compassion...I believe she'd do anything to undo what she's done... I am expressing a hope. That we can all find a way to extend a little compassion to a fellow-sufferer who made a terrible mistake and then clumsily tried to take responsibility for it."

By October 16, 2012, Cal had pulled that post. I suppose her reason could be that the post "seemed redundant" to her, that she "felt a little differently about Charity's behavior as some days passed," and that the history-deletion could be chalked up to a process called "shifting one's perspective," as she would later claim when Upsi inquired about the change; but I have a feeling it's not quite that simple. In the post she pulled, Cal talked at length about how deserving of compassion and forgiveness Charity was and how she had just made a "bad mistake" that could have been apologized for in a more graceful way. She went into further detail than in her comments on Upsi's original post about what Charity was feeling and thinking. She called, continually, for the entire ACoN blogging community to show "compassion" for Charity, who, in her opinion, deserved it MORE than Upsi. And, quite possibly more important than all of those facts, are some of the twenty nine comments made on that post, where Cali-Dear flip-flops on her "Save-Charity" position several times, and her blog emerges as the 'safe zone' for people who were too intimidated by the all those pesky "negative emotions" that came as a result of the "Charity dust-up" to comment on our posts about it, let alone (gasp!) start (and keep!) blogs of their own.

I saw talk, in both comments and in posts on Cal's blog, about their apparent need for a "safe place." And that kind of language brings me back to the days of Coleman, when several of us were accused of encroaching on the estranged parents' "safe space" within the Coleman forum for estranged parents, before being asked to leave and take our opinions elsewhere. Short-term blogger Maree came to this post on my blog, left comments that rubbed me the wrong way, and then retreated to Cal's blog when I expressed my thoughts about her bizarre commentary. Cal welcomed her with open arms, stating "You'll be safe here." You know, since I "attacked" her here and all that. Several other bloggers flocked to Cal Sis as well, seemingly in a show of ultimate unification and solidarity to the Penguin who seems to greatly enjoy the pedestal she's been placed on.

In her October 12, 2012 post titled, "Thoughts About Blogging And Community," Cal seemed to start taking the consensus that her blog is the be-all, end-all of "safe zones" to heart, and talked in earnest about her role as lobbyist for those who don't want their shit "judged." Again, what do I see? I see someone who is trying desperately to make herself the "head," the "master," the "Queen." I see someone who is setting herself up to be a beacon, as Upsi is a beacon for our community. I see someone trying to cut the sheep from the flock in order to herd them in her direction. I see someone who has been, for quite some time now, trying to force the community to see it her way or else be labeled "judgemental," "inconsiderate," and "unempathetic."

Cal's post, "Nobody's Straw Man" proved to be my last straw, and the URL of that post says it all: "Perhaps there is no us." Well, slap me around and call me Susan, if that wasn't her entire motive, than I don't know what would have been. Because, you see, if she's nobody's straw man and she can't be everybody's savior, well then, I guess there is no "us," right? Within that post and the related comments, I saw a lot of shit going down that only managed to strengthen my conviction that Cal has been secretly after the "throne" from day one.

First, please allow me to rake the post itself for evidence. Cal spent a good deal of her time, once again, subtly insinuating blame by pointing fingers at those-who-shall-remain-nameless: "I have noticed a few threads on some other blogs..." "Then people run riffs..." "It is a commenter's occupational hazard that when people read comments they will hear what they hear and feel what they feel." She makes a ton of references to "people" and "blogs" but never mentions names specifically, even though it's clear, at least to me, exactly who she's referring to. She completely disregarded people who had taken the time to express their feelings that she had scolded them in prior posts and comments: "Just because someone feels scolded or "reprimanded" does not mean that I was scolding or reprimanding anyone." She paints both Charity and herself as victims: "These 'translations' [of my words] are distortions of what I actually said:  unfair, unkind, and transfer a target off of the original offender's back (Charity) onto mine." She again trots out the old claim that we're the ones who've misunderstood her: "People are of course free to 'hear' me however they choose." She lords her age and worldly-experience over those of us who dare not consent to her ways of thinking: "I work in a profession that requires respectful and frequent arguments;  I often reconsider my positions, and am usually the first to admit when I've made an error in judgement." She flipflops on her position concerning Charity: "I 'erred' on the side of suggesting that the betrayer (Charity) be given a little compassion as well, before realizing that she probably did not deserve it." She throws out nasty jibes about how "bitter" the rest of us must be, to not be in the same emotional place that she is: "Your history with narc bloggers is longer than mine and you have a deeper well of bitter experience." And she ties it all up nicely with commentary about how there is no "we." No "us." No "community."

Well, move over Batman, 'cause Mayor Rancid-Bitch has just come to town. Is it any wonder why Upsi went on to point out that Cal might as well can the subterfuge and just come out and say that it was her words and her blog that were being referenced? Is it any wonder that she reiterated her feeling that Cal had been scolding us in terms of how we'd handled Charity's insanity? Is it any wonder that she'd call Cal out on her vague allusions to Upsi's very specific analyses?

Well, it's no wonder to me, although it sure seemed to throw Cal and her followers for a loop.

I got involved when blogger Trisha insinuated that Q1605 was actually a narcissist who had collected his own "blind followers" by creating them AND their blogs. When I asked Trisha to specify who, precisely, she was claiming had false identities, she did not answer. I went on and directed the question at her a second time, telling her I'd be interested in her answer. When I went on to check a third time, she had deleted her initial comments and I stated that the deletion of her comments was evidence to me that she had read my question and was, in fact, ignoring it.

Shortly after that, Cal "accidentally" deleted my questions, claimed she tried to restore them but was too stupid to do so, and then offered (multiple times) for me to re-submit them.

After much commentary back and forth between myself and Queen Rancid-Bitch, I've come to the following conclusion: Caliban's Sister is a revisionist who deletes posts and comments that don't jive with her latest bullshit. She can spin a pretty picture and plant many a seed in the minds of the weaker-willed folks out there, and it isn't beneath her to play dumb if she thinks it'll make her look good. She panders to whichever crowd she's talking to and can be cited ALL OVER THE PLACE for flipflopping her position on multiple points. She has staked her claim as the "savior" and says that SHE is the final word on who is allowed to be classified as "evil." If you haven't run that label by her, you ought to, because she'll attempt to skewer you if you've incorrectly labeled someone as such. She's a master-manipulator and wants to be seen as the friend-of-all-enemy-of-none. She "tidies up the truth" whenever and wherever it suits her. She's a champion of fucking nutters and abusers alike. And I just plain fucking dislike her.

Hey, Cal's Sis?

SUCK.
MY.
DICK.


*If anyone is interested, at any point in time, in reading transcripts of any of Cal's posts and/or commentary, I'll gladly supply it, as will my friend Upsi-pants. The truth is in the details, and if you ever want the evidence, I have no problem sharing it.

79 comments:

  1. Have you considered a career in detective work or law? You'd be formidable for sure.

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    1. Not seriously. But detective work sure does sound appealing to me, Vi. All that data analysis just makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

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  2. I put my comment in the wrong post area.If you post it, here it is again.
    Thanks for the link to my blog. Not sure why it's tough for you to accept that the person I was making subtle insinuations about was Q, Q1605. Very very soon after I posted it I OWNED it and asked for the person I offended to forgive me, he said YES TRISHA I QQQ1605 Forgive You. It is all done now. Even Q! told you it was over, done...why do you continue naming me with not so subtle insinuations that I am this or that. You and I have never talked. We don't know each other. If you believe you do know me, well,then you are projecting personality traits from people you've known and are carelessly hurling them at me. Thanks for the help healing. Nice lady. Perhaps if you were an ACON you would be more empathetic and responsible about the effects your mean-spirited communication has. I made a few mean comments for my own reasons and owned them, what's your excuse? Your mean mouth is More justified than mine? Are you going to do as I did and own this in the future? If not, that speaks to your integrity, not mine.
    It's clear you crave others to agree with your perspective. If what you're saying about CS(+ me + others) is in fact accurate,don't you think other bloggers will/can make up their own mind? Are you smarter than all of us? You really believe we need you to educate us and that your opinion is fact?
    Maybe CS, or me, or whoever else,were being manipulated, what's it to ya?
    Honestly, your stab at logic feels 'off' to me, but we are all different. Maybe if you're born and raised by a narcissist you'd see things differently? It's weird that you believe that CS saying she had sympathy for Charity meant we all have to have sympathy for her as well?? Huh? What? Is that you attempting to take away Calibans free speech right? Do you really view the blog readers to be so effen idiotic that if we read an opinion we, the mindless, just agree?
    If you express an opinion and others disagree, it's really okay. Not everyone agrees, that's how life works. No need to bring the people down. That's how my NM handled her emotions too. The way you talked to me and CS on her blog, upset me, inspired anger, exactly like the kind I feel when I've been treated badly and the offender will never ever own it. That is unfair and mean, though I have a sense that's your intention,to attack, justify and move on. Nothing to admire, nothing to respect, nothing to spend two 1/2 more minutes on. I will never view your blog again, even to see what clever, hurtful things you say in response to me here. This upsets and hurts me, and I really am on a healing path. Like Upsi, I am a Scorpio, my birthday is Friday...if you have any humanity, give me a birthday gift, please forget you ever knew me and leave me alone..ok?
    I have not finished reading this post...it goes on and on, wow, that's a lot. I do need to stop reading though, because I so strongly disagree with your twist/perspective on most everything that it's unbearable reading. Not sure if you mention me anymore...*sigh + a wee yawn*, but really, there are ways to fill your time that are constructive and positive. (I just did a word search on the page with my name and saw a few other mentions. Re: Your question to me on CS's blog: Why do I owe you an answer? Is this something I have to give you? Seems my gut instinct to avoid you was right on target, as usual. You are emotionally dangerous, you seem proud of how you can cause others pain but pissed at CS for trying to be empathetic?)You meant nothing to me then, and nothing more than another effed up biatch now that you've shown more of yourself.I do send you positive energy, and you might want to shove it up my ass, that's ok. If I understand anything about you, it's the inner rage and desire for fairness. I just think you're going about this in a destructive way.

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  3. Thanks Jonsi. This is great.
    She spun one of my comments on her pity party thread and said I said it's ALL her fault. What I really said was that she should own her part in it.
    It's funny her interpretations of quotes are nothing like what we actually say. But she never offers these interpretations until she has deleted the comment.
    She'll just throw down more blankets for her pity picnic and more sheep will rush to her side, but deep down she knows we know and her sheeple know what she's about.
    Deep inside that narc trance she has them dancing to there is a weak little person hating themselves for leaving one narc and joining forces with another.
    She called this tune. A normal person would have said, I swear I didn't mean it like that, but I can see how you would take it like that, so I will quit telling every one how to feel and focus on my self, but the disordered never cop to a thing.
    Even now you have untangled her web of bullshit.

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  4. I've been following this blog for a while and have read some things that have taught me how to live more effectively as a recovering ACoN. The past few days, however, during which part of the ACoN community has turned on each other and are "eating their own", have made me decide that I have to be far more selective about the blogs I read so that I'm not exposed to the same sniping, name-calling, sarcastic humor, and wild speculation about another person's motives that made me go NC with the WWW and her Flying Monkeys. I've chosen to live a more quiet life, one without histrionics and high drama generally, one more suited to a healthy sensitive person. As sad as this makes me, I have to leave this blog behind, Jonsi, as well as a few others. Thank you for your former posts, posts that were helpful and not harmful.

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    1. Because there was nothing dramatic about that "I'm leaving, you meanies!" comment...

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  5. Toto leaves the high drama for a more serene life at Cali's.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

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  6. These chicks get high on buzz words. We are all on a healing journey. My path to healing comes in the form of kind and sensitive words from a person with experience and wisdom who will guide me through the pit falls that litter the road to my recovery.
    I got news for you. The path to recovery lies between your ears. Outsourcing your recovery to some hag just because she knows all the right buzz words just cranks up a whole new palette of disordered thinking and is one of the pit falls you should avoid.

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  7. Take out Caliban's Sister and insert "My Narcissistic Mother" and this post wouldn't bother anybody. That's what this whole Charity thing has put into motion. Someone welcomed into the circle of bloggers went off the deep end and we don't have to rehash that. But all the hand-wringing and knuckle-rapping in response to that incident has torn this place apart. And because it is a fellow ACoN everybody is dancing around about taking sides and journeys to healing and what branch are you on.

    Caliban's Sister is over on her blog calling us a fucking gang. And if you want to believe her schtick about innocence and healing and oh-i-didn't-mean-it-that-way and poor-me, that's your right. But she is just as much part of the infighting with her passive aggressive posts and subtle side creation. Just as much part of the "high drama" and trashing, she just won't come right out and say it.

    I'm not going to posture and play Mother Superior. I'm pissed off and I don't like what's happening. But the part of all of this that I come back to is that we all have minds of our own. Think what you want, feel what you feel, follow who you follow, walk away from who you walk away from. This is not a convent. Nobody is in charge. We're all people just trying to find our way.

    And I know we'll find our way through this.

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    Replies
    1. "Take out Caliban's Sister and insert "My Narcissistic Mother" and this post wouldn't bother anybody. That's what this whole Charity thing has put into motion."

      So true. I think we'll find our way too.

      Delete
  8. Here's my POV, FWIW: I am VERY sensitive to re-writing history. If anyone had been present throughout the entire "conversation" AS IT ORIGINALLY UNFOLDED, NOT in it's various reincarnations, revisions, missing/lost parts it would appear and "feel" entirely differently than it does today. At least it does to me, so lemme own that unequivocally.
    As I watched this unfold I have to say I felt I was vicariously participating in the most bizarre "conversation" I have EVER been involved with in cyberspace OR in IRL. Really. So I'm "gone" for ~48 hrs. and come back to a WHOLE DIFFERENT "World." NO, that's NOT what I read on Fri., OK? HUH? Comments-and a fair amount of 'em had been deleted and I'm just gonna stick with that part because that's what was so bizarre to ME. Consequently, ONE "comment" that remained after the originals had been deleted or where ever they "disappeared" to, was kind of like a dangling participle-just dangling there. With NO "context."
    Again, I've had history revised so many times as a gas lighting tactic, I NOTICE "deletes" big time. Now I GET "the heat of the moment" where a commenter reads it and thinks, "Lemme re-think that" and pulls it volitionally, OK? But when a whole BUNCH of stuff gets deleted by the BLOGGER themselves thereby gutting-again, from MY perspective-the entire "jist" of the Comments, whoa, baby. Wait one. The message that sends to me cuts right to the core of my trust stuff. And brings up "Agenda." Why would a Blogger DO that? Listen up, I'm a computer moron and I make no bones about it. But when CS essentially told jonsi it was HER responsibility to somehow RECREATE what CS herself had removed, that was enough for me. Even THIS moron knows, all that "stuff" is in this thing somewhere, maybe in my trash bin, maybe in "History" but it's THERE.
    My truth IS what it IS: I don't know any of these people and I'll say it again: I am NO ONE's "Spokesperson" but my own. That's it. What you "see" on line is what you get-there isn't incongruity, a "split off persona" between me in my LR and my on-line presence. I ENJOY different POV's-in fact, my greatest "sweet-spot" in the everyday world has been working towards PEACE among all parties involved. Conflict is an inevitable part of human life and I'm NOT in any way uncomfortable with Conflict. That's what I DO, that's who I AM. But Peace does NOT infer "pacification" or changing up the equation to make MY life a bit easier, hurry the process along, omit salient realities etc. It doesn't work and I'm here to tell ya, it WON'T, OK? Ultimately, you have superficial glad-handing, but the reality is, the underlying POVs/Dynamics are STILL right there and are gonna blow up eventually.
    I'm sorry about the whole mess, I truly AM. But this I do know: ALL of us are on a journey called life: After-a-non-existant "parental" presence as society at large views "Parents" and all the stuff that comes about as a result. I DO know, at least for me, when you stick a lid on a filled-to-the-brim pot of boiling pasta, it's gonna overflow, and it's gonna be a mess. If I don't mess with the process, I won't get burned. And the pasta won't be cooked beyond recognition.
    Just my POV and FWIW. Thanks for reading if ya have and I hope that clarifies how I'm feeling and how I view "what happened."
    TW

    ReplyDelete
  9. I do believe what Vanci said that we're "All in the Same Boat" - which is why the infighting is so upsetting. Which is why the scolding is so upsetting. It's all a distraction from what we're here to do, which is work through our issues and become better people.

    And if it's not "acceptable" to say, hey fellow ACoN, when you said X, Y, and Z, I felt scolded, without the kind of reaction Caliban's Sister had with her "Nobody's Straw Man" post, we're not in the same boat anymore. We're all out to sea. She has said unequivocally that my comment on Q's post was out of line and never should have been written, and the rest is history for as long as it is available online. Read it for yourself. Decide for yourself.

    ReplyDelete
  10. One last observation, Trisha: IMO, that was a Cold Shot, baby, at jonsi: "Perhaps if you were an ACoN you'd be more empathetic...." etc.
    Trisha, look, does that mean to feel empathy towards someone who's mentally retarded or in some other way challenged (and YEAH, I AM, BIG TIME) I gotta "be" "THEM" with all that implies? An ACoN ONLY could get a damn good sense of the tactics and maneuvers people use to accommodate their daily lives-from-hell? Frankly, I find the perspective of someone who grew up in a NON-ACoN FOO and walked into this world of hell called ACoN FOO-lishness may-just MAY-"Get It" with far less clutter and independent thinking than my own.
    I'm just sayin' what ever good points you may WELL have made in the rest of your comment, you essentially discredited with this statement.
    And that's too bad. I think you have some good stuff to bring to the table. I've been reading your Blog. I'm visiting and paying attention as you roll out your reality. Cuz the over-arching themes sure feel familiar to ME. I think those years in that cabin were your BEST years, so far from what I've observed. You bloomed and blossomed where you WERE. And then....you did what you did and learned you can never go "Home" because there never was a place called "Home" but there WAS a house.
    Trisha, Keep it commin' on your Blog. You're workin' it out in your own way, in your own time and I SEE THAT. I FEEL that.
    Shots like that are divisive as hell and there's no reason for that, IMO than to troll the residuals in an effort to DISMISS the point as well as the INDIVIDUAL, OK?
    Sing your song. Be true to your words and your meaning. If I could magically transform your life, I'd be singing this to YOU, courtesy of Neil Young: "Sugar Mountain." But you don't need ANYONE to do that for you: You have every *last* thing/tool/knowledge/feeling you need to find your way to your REAL "Home." Please don't give away your agency so cheaply or loose site of the reality others, besides "ACoNs" have "empathy" or whatever. No one of us have cornered the market on "Empathy." Or responsibility and what that means to each one of us, including your's truly, OK?
    TW

    ReplyDelete
  11. TW, I appreciate your reply..and that you were paying attention to my blog. :) When I said that Jonsi is not being an Acon etc, this inspired that: here's her post to me on CS's blog. She's quoting my post to her, where I was *trying* to nicely explain why I handn't responded to her on CS's blog. I wish now I would have simply said, "I owe you nothing bye"
    Here it is; (My partial words are in quotes)

    "I thought I had cleared up/owned/apologized to the people I offended"

    Apparently not.

    "No offense."

    Sure.

    "I assumed your comments were prior to you realizing."

    Playing dumb AND pretending that I'm dumb too. I've always enjoyed seeing that tactic in writing.

    "I welcome a discussion on my blog, or yours, anytime."

    What's wrong with here?

    "P.S. I did inquire to CS as to where your comments to me went b/c I hoped you'd pulled them realizing I had already (thought I)resolved that issue."

    Considering that I kept coming back and asking you to answer them, I'm pretty sure you're lying.

    I'm also pretty sure your comment on my blog about the song I posted was just you playing a "see-I'm-harmless" game.

    And when I say "pretty sure" I mean "absolutely sure."""

    The vibe and attitude of those words were cruel and unfair. I don't owe anybody a reply ever! Who the eff is Jonsi to 'demand' I reply to her? When I didn't reply that was enough to justify her anger towards me? People who rallied against Charity could have stepped in and reminded Jonsi that her being an 'angry=demander' is unfair and selfish. I felt that if she had been raised by a N parent she might have *more* empathy towards those of us she hurts/attacks with her clever words. I did not say she has zero empathy...but to treat others that way, not own it and keep going...well, that speaks for itself..to me anyhow.
    I've deleted my blog b/c I don't want to share my personal stuff with people who don't tell Jonsi she is wrong and just enable the hell out of her behavior. The last few days, 100% b/c of Jonsi's attack, I have felt worse emotionally than I have in months and months. It/this/she is not worth it. If you need to twist my words to help Jonsi feel better, well, that's on you TW. One last time, I did not say she had NO empathy, just not as much as she might have if she was an acon. Just an opinion...fwiw.Personally, I feel really bad after I talk mean to people..I want to make it better, not worse. Jonsi and I seem to differ in that area as well. It might take a day or two to get this blog-group out of my system, but I've quit smoking years ago effortlessly..this is nothing.

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    Replies
    1. Trisha,

      You've already stated that you wouldn't be coming back here to read any further, but now here you are. So I'd like to say a few things in the event that you come back again. My original beef with you was in your commentary directed at Q, where you insinuated that he was inauthentic, or he had made up his own "blind-followers." And I first wanted to know which of the many bloggers here you thought were fake. And then, here's the thing, you just deleted your comments. You didn't address the fact that you deleted them, you certainly didn't answer my question, and it was pretty apparent to me that you were blatantly ignoring them. You could have said, "I see your question but I choose not to answer them" or something to that effect, but what you ended up showing me was that you were choosing to ignore me and then turn around and leave a superficial comment on my blog as, what, an "olive-branch?" When I saw that comment, which didn't seem to me like it required a response at all, I went back to Cal's post to see whether you had answered my question, since you had obviously picked me up on your radar.

      When I went back to see if you had answered, I saw that you had, instead, just went and deleted your original comments. Which you have a history of doing, not just on Cal's blog, but on others as well. So now that you had effectively deleted and/or revised your original commentary, it seemed a whole hell of a lot more weird to me.

      I figured there was something up with a person who didn't want to answer a specific question, but who had apparently felt comfortable lobbing vague accusations at me or my friends.

      And to say you've deleted your blog 100% because of me? Well, I had no idea I had that much power over you. To say that you only want to have a blog if your readership will tell me I'm wrong makes me think you haven't come to the right place on your journey towards healing. So, what, you're only looking for people who agree with you? Is that it? I don't know man, at least own the fact that you chose to shut down your blog on your own.

      And this whole blogging thing, for me, isn't about me collecting more empathy than the next person. I'm not racing anyone to the top of that mountain.

      I still want to say that, though I never really got a chance to read your blog, I think there's something more real to you than what I saw recently in your commentary on Q's posts and on Cal's posts. I can understand, given my words above, why you'd feel like I had been attacking you. Truth be told, I also felt attacked by you, starting with your initial comments to Q, with whatever you were insinuating about him and his friends. I consider myself a friend of Q and figured it could have been possible you were talking about me. I can see why you'd feel I was being harsh. I was. If it is worth anything, though I'm not sorry for speaking the truth, I AM sorry that I hurt your feelings.

      Best of luck on your continued journey, should you choose to stay away.

      Delete
  12. Here's my latest blog entry, sorry for the rambling length.
    You *must* know how effen addictive this shit is, eh? I did intend to stay away, but feel compelled to stay until all of my truth is out. (I brought a blanket)
    I appreciate you being less sarcastic and somewhat generous towards me in your last reply. Obviously I needed that. *swallowing noises* What follows is some honest info that's missing, it's much easier now I'm a grrrl without a blog. During the dark period, when the residue from the charity-event should have been nothing but a bad memory, people were still yapping about it...not to learn and evolve, but to blame and vent. I was ready for it to be over, especially the part where CS was being demonized for stating her opinions. I had never emailed with CS or even had an ongoing conversation, so I wasn't on anyone's side. I believed I was speaking up for little Trisha who was left alone to deal with horrible injustices as a little kid. Or speaking out in support of fair treatment of animals. Or for a fellow blogger who has every right to state any opinion she wants. I am kinda in a rough spot right now and so I wanted people to be emotionally generous towards me, and I idiotically believed here among others wanting to heal there would be an abundance of generosity. That is why I was watching carefully how people were dealing with the charity thing. I knew that how her fuck up was dealt with was a window into how generous people around here would be to me. I was disappointed. No one owed me anything, but I later realized I held a secret hope/expectation that things would be kinder and gentler here. So that is the bare bones reason I deleted my blog. This, between us, was just the final straw. Sorry to attempt a guilt trip on you. :) The final part of this response will be sent after this b/c it's too damn long and who knew there's a limit on length! I've never hit it before.

    ReplyDelete
  13. The last part; I was very happy there was a delete button on comments b/c I was so pissed at everybody for letting me down (subconsciously) that I was spitting impulsive anger which I regretted 44 seconds later..d e l e t e! However, when I left that nasty comment on CS's blog re: (bad Q and blind support)I *let myself be persuaded* into not deleting it. After I had resolved it, I really wanted to get rid of it and eventually my backbone healed and I did as I had always wanted to. As far as your comments to me on that blog; I did not see them for myself. Being a new blogger I easily loose track of where my comments are and rarely go back. They were brought to my attention and it was suggested that I do not respond to them as they were baiting me. I am a Scorpio...my nature is to face everything, including comments to me, but my backbone seemed to get re-injured and I went along with that suggestion. I looked for an email addy for you so I could respond, no luck...so I left a reply on your blog about the song(I really did scour the internet!)hoping we could start a dialogue and I could ask for your addy...and check out if you still cared about the issue, since it had been resolved. You know the rest of the story first hand. I wasn't clear who was a friend of who, but I was not thinking about you when I typed that to/about Q.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. {{{{{Trisha}}}}

      I think you'll find there is real generosity in this community. These two comments of yours were brave & awesome (as I risk sounding like an asskisser, though I can assure you I am not)

      Delete
    2. Trisha,

      First of all, thanks for coming back. That kind of makes me feel like maybe you haven't lost all hope and you're still holding on to something positive in all of this. On the stuff about CS: I don't like her and I don't like what I see her doing. I know, I come across sounding so harsh in my analysis of her and the events surrounding the recent drama. I stayed away, mostly, from the drama of Charity, though I did make some comments about it on other blogs, offering my opinions where I felt it necessary. And I think the fact that it shook everyone up is of course what made people talk about it for so long. I have to disagree with you that people were talking about it in order to "blame and vent" or that anyone was demonizing CS. I also don't see Charity's actions as a "fuck up," I saw them as intentional and I didn't have a problem with how my friends responded to her.

      This piques my interest as well: "I knew that how her fuck up was dealt with was a window into how generous people around here would be to me. I was disappointed. No one owed me anything, but I later realized I held a secret hope/expectation that things would be kinder and gentler here." Unless you are Charity and you had chosen to behave the same way, I can't see people responding or reacting to you the same way they did to her. I kind of see this as a narcissistic-injury type of situation, where you thought people were going to judge you, when in reality, no one was even looking at you (other than whoever was already reading your blog or whatever). So, you somehow managed to take something personally that really wasn't even slightly directed at you.

      About your comment - I do wish you had just like, explained a little bit. I think I would have understood. If you were like, "I feel I have to delete this comment." Or just something, instead of ignoring me completely.

      You talk a lot about some person, even now, in some vague way, and that makes me wonder...why hide it? What are you hiding? Or, should I say, who?

      "I *let myself be persuaded*" (By whom?)

      "They were brought to my attention" (again, by whom?)

      "it was suggested that I do not respond to them" (I know you know where I'm going with this. And I also have a really good guess who you're talking about).

      So what you're telling me is that a certain someone suggested you ignore me, before pointing out to you that *I* was baiting you and sending you in the direction of a couple of comments you hadn't even seen yourself?

      Sounds to me like that person had a motive and that you were willing to be herded around.

      -BUT- I am glad you've come here to set the record (more?) straight. My email address is actually at the top of my blog, right on the left hand side, I believe in the very first "blurb" about me. You're welcome to email me privately to converse further about it: jonsi(dot)131@gmail.com

      Oh - and the song - I felt that you reaching out in that way was more along the lines of a superficial olive branch than an addressing of what (I felt) was a real issue. Admittedly, it was reminiscent of the way a lot of narcs have responded to conflict: by avoiding it.

      But it does mean something to me that you've come back and that you're reaching out, now, in a deeper way. Thanks again.

      (If you choose to email me tonight, I probably won't respond right away. It's been a long day, I'm heading to bed!)

      Until later,

      Jonsi

      Delete
    3. P.S. I'm with Vicarious in saying that there IS real generosity here and kindness and consideration. I don't know about gentle. Sometimes, depending on who is saying it, it is. Other times, not so much. I tend to be really, really harsh. I'll try to be less so when I'm speaking to you in the future.

      Delete
  14. If I may be so bold as to tell you I have spoken with Trisha one on one and she's OK.
    I won't elaborate but I think she is.....
    OK

    ReplyDelete
  15. I think Tisha has a problem controlling her anger.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH But so do I.
    Marry me Trisha!!!!!!!!
    We are a match made in heaven.
    I went back and really read her comments and I can work around it.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Ya'know what? (i am sorry for crop dusting you) but I am not going to qualify my words on Trisha.
    I think she is pretty cool.
    That's about as glowing of an endorsement as I give.
    I know you were all waiting to hear from me before you made a final judgement.
    So there you go.
    Ummmmmmm LOL?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes-siree-Bob. Needed the Q stamp of approval. Thank ya vurry much.

      Delete
    2. And, can I just say, (And this is not in any way a jab at anyone at this point), your use of the word "sheeple" is just fantastic. I mean, that's mint. I really like that word.

      It's kind of like the word "pajangle." Which is when you wake up in the morning and your pajamas are at a 180 degree angle. You know, totally twisted.

      (*Enter: jokes about how you all sleep naked*)

      Delete
  17. This is really neat and I too want to say how cool it is of Trisha to come back and talk it out.

    If CS would for one single instant say "hey guys I didn't mean to scold you but I'm sorry if it sounded like I did" it would be over and done (for me at least). And now I want it to be over and done with so we can get back to what we do best: share ourselves, our experiences, our hopes, our fears. Work on our shit, laugh, the whole rigamarole.

    I need to look at my own anger and reactions and I will be doing a post about it once I have it all clear.

    Thanks again for the honesty, Jonsi - raw and uncensored, unafraid of what the real you "looks like," trying to talk about what you see and cut through the posturing.

    xo
    upsi

    ReplyDelete
  18. I thought you were marrying me, Q, you poly amorous nerfherder! Oh, my broken heart.....

    ReplyDelete
  19. Jonsi spoke;
    "I kind of see this as a narcissistic-injury type of situation, where you thought people were going to judge you, when in reality, no one was even looking at you (other than whoever was already reading your blog or whatever). So, you somehow managed to take something personally that really wasn't even slightly directed at you."
    These are the exact type of comments that you might think twice before making if you were also an ACON. Several women new like me to blogging, expressed the EXACT FEELINGS I had. You, the non ACON are calling me a 'possible n with an n injury' then you are calling all the women who felt as I did the same. Great community building there.
    Then you add, "Admittedly, it was reminiscent of the way a lot of narcs have responded to conflict: by avoiding it.",
    You really have had your head in the sand lately around here eh? I have been right in the middle of conflict...even creating some myself. Avoiding it? I'm here aren't I? Is this avoiding it? A very transparent and silly attempt by you at pretending once again, you know me and know I am likely a narcissist. The all knowing wise Jonsi has yet another judgement of someone other than herself. You sure come across as an entitled, high maintenance person. You act as though people owe you something, you JUSTIFY your verbal abuse if they don't submit. I won't mention what personality disorder that sounds like. My current judgement of you, 'at this point you appear to be emotionally stingy, mean-spirited and a big baby who whines and cries endlessly to get her way'. Talk about N injury, you're obviously still pissed at all my 'upsetting' comments and want to 'BRING ME DOWN'...you think. "but damn, some people like the bitch..hmm what to do what to do? Hey, I can slide little subtle hurtful insults into a nicey nice package." If you're not a N, then my mother isn't either..I am in the wrong place.

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    Replies
    1. Um wow. Are you like the same person who just commented a little while ago? Or...

      Delete
    2. I definitely didn't call you a narcissist. I said that I saw it as a narcissistic-injury. Which anyone can experience.

      And my reference to you avoiding conflict was in terms of the song comment you made, before. I wasn't referring to you avoiding conflict right now.

      And no. No, I'm not pissed. But thanks for telling me I am. And that I want to bring you down. I needed someone to tell me that those are my thoughts and feelings.

      It's like a flip was switched. This must be the Trisha who says something and then regrets it 44 seconds later. The switch is really creepy.

      Delete
    3. Maybe b/c it's almost Halloween, but I find your denial of the N insults creepy too, just like something my NM does.Always deniable subtle hurts. You are gifted with language skills, why choose narcissistic injury, and the way N's deal with conflict etc? Like choose a different way to communicate..but you meant every word..carefully chosen. 44 seconds are up, nope, I feel just fine.

      Delete
    4. Trisha, I understand feeling really vulnerable about anything containing the word "narcissistic" directed at you - I used to as well. We want to detach from our Ns as much as possible, and defining ourselves as the opposite of them and "non-N" seems to help, at least at first.

      However, I now find it extremely helpful when certain narcissistic traits ad defenses are pointed out to me. For instance, I recognized myself in Jonsi's comment to you - I also have a narcissistic wound and feel as if someone is judging me when they're talking about someone else, and I also sometimes avoid conflict by ignoring it. Jonsi's comment actually helped me and gave me an "aha" moment.

      Our fleas don't make us evil narcissists unless we deny them and pretend they don't exist - at least that's my experience. The stronger I get, the more open I am about facing my own inner narcissist.

      I don't trust Jonsi never to say something that will shock me or even hurt me. I don't trust her not to call me a narcissistic bitch and tell me to fuck off if it ever comes to that. But I trust her to say exactly what she means and not to subtly and insidiously put me down, I trust her not to smile in my face and then stab me in the back, and I trust her judgment a little more each day.

      Delete
  20. No tacky comments tonight Jonsi.
    Vic.
    Why can't we all just get along?
    .
    .

    And move to Utah and throw down.
    Yowsah!

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    Replies
    1. Sounds fun Q. Promise your mom doesn't get a forwarding address for you. And that I'll get you playing your gee-tar on stage. I need a new muse. You wanna apply?

      Delete
  21. yes yes yes Jonsi, I have multi layers, with a special sensitivity to mean-spirited people. Why did you have to add those unnecessary comments about narcissists and hinting that I remind you of one? Like, why did you add that just then? You seem to have a deep need to be and stay nasty. You make way more demands than you are entitled, from me. I sense you hoped I would stay away and your initial comment to me would make you appear nice and caring, when this darkness continues raging inside of you. At least that's the visual I get from you. Like I said way back, I do hope this blogging hell is in my rear view in a day or two. I feel upset and bad around you...tells me to stay away..now if I can just do it asap...'here's hoping'

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    Replies
    1. I see now. Your comments here were part of a "bait and switch" tactic. Listen, Trisha, I don't "hint." I'm a straight-shooter. I'm whispering this and saying it as gently as possible, while walking backwards so as not to provoke you further: you might want to get some help. Just sayin'.

      Delete
  22. Note to self. Stay the fuck away from anyone who is, was, or will ever be in the Cal's Sis menagerie.
    VR.
    Come back. All is forgiven.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What? What'd I do? Did I leave? What am I being forgiven for so I can apologize appropriately? Damn, I hate it when I trip all over myself. :)

      Delete
    2. Sorry to hijack: VR, please invite me to your blog :)

      Go back to whatever you were doing there.

      Delete
  23. No VR. I threw you over for Trisha. Big mistake.

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    Replies
    1. You threw me over? Ouch. I'm gonna go cry in the corner.

      Delete
  24. in my marriage there have been many areas where I needed to be called out and to look truthfully at myself, not at who I want to seem like I am. and I am better for it. Jonsi, I've always said you remind me of my husband because you call it like you see it and you are open to dialogue if you're totally off base.

    I rest easier at night knowing that if I'm ever acting a fool, you'll tell me. I mean that's fuckin friendship yo.

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    Replies
    1. Well, I try to have a dialogue if I'm way off base. I know I'm not always right and I strive to explore issues from all angles. I go back to things I don't understand many, many times because understanding is big for me. I want to understand and I want to be understood. Sometimes understanding is overrated, sometimes it's not.

      I'm a "Don't burn my bagel, please" girl instead of a "Please lightly toast it" girl. For better or for worse, I try really hard not to sugar coat. I call it like I see it. And I don't think that welcoming the opinions and thoughts of others means that it's not acceptable for anyone to disagree.

      And at the end of the day, I'd rather have one friend, just ONE, who tells me I've got shit in my teeth and I'm way off base; then five hundred friends who let me find out on my own that there's something on my face and I'm dead wrong.

      Delete
    2. I promise to always tell you when you have shit in your teeth - or when your barn door is open. xo

      Delete
    3. BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That is, most definitely, fuckin' friendship.

      Delete
    4. My husband is the same way. I used to feel attacked before I realized all this stuff. Now I appreciate it. Still getting used to all the swearing - both in DH and Jonsi.

      Delete
    5. DH hates my swearing. I'm okay with it, except that it's become such a habit, such a way of talking for me, that I do it in front of the kids too. Which is obviously not acceptable.

      Swearing really isn't offensive to me, but I know it's offensive to other people. PA, if I ever want to point out something about you, I'll try never to use swears in making my point. And the great thing about the written word is that I can edit those things out before I post them.

      Delete
    6. Feel free to point out anything to me, and you can swear if it feels right - just know that the cursing might make me cringe while the actual point might not. I have actually started to swear a little under the influence of all you people.

      Delete
    7. Well, swearing always feels right to me, but I'll try not to swear AT you. I think swearing is like my point-maker when all else fails. Sometimes I feel like, if I swear, things will all, suddenly make sense. It is sort of catchy though.

      I don't know where it came from. My parents never swore.

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    8. Maybe it was the liquid soap pumped in my mouth, or the forbidden fruit of the curse words in my Christian upbringing, but swearing always has that rebellious I-say-what-I-feel vibe to it for me.

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    9. I read somewhere recently that using swear words is a stress release. I'll buy it. I sometimes use words like "fiddlesticks" too, if it suits the frustration.

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    10. My sister (5 years my senior) had her mouth washed out with soap when she was roughly 9. I watched my mother make her procedure and then declare "see, this is what happens when you swear. Do you like that?" To which my sister responded "yes actually, it tastes good'". She was sent to her room, mother left the house in frustration, and I the 4 year old, ate the cake of soap. My sister was wrong, it taste bad!

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    11. Door Mat, is your point that you feel swearing is, in fact, bad? I'm not sure I'm following what you're trying to say, if there is a deeper meaning here that I'm not quite grasping.

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    12. NO not at all! I too swear more than people would 'like'. I was just sharing (what I thought) was a silly and comical memory in the hopes to give you all a little laugh. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. I love swearing, it shows my depth in my feelings. So please, don't think I was critising or chastising. Fucking go for it :)

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    13. Hahahahaha! Thanks for the fucking clarification. It would seem I was just looking far too deep into your soap-eating memory.

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    14. Hahaha! I still can taste that soap!
      When I threw it up my mother asked me why I ate it. I explained it was because sister said it was good. She laughed at me and told me "DM, from now on wheat our sister (9ish) says things like that, don't always listen, and on another note, when your uncle (16 year old) tells you he thinks he has a hole in his pants and you look and he farts they are not telling the truth". Ok, was all I replied, so she asked "now uncle has said that a lot of times, and each time you still look, why when you know that he's just going to fart in your face, do you still look?". My response was, and I shit you not, was "because one day he might really need me to check if he does have agile in his pants, and he needs me to tell him". My mother laughed, then told me I was so naive and innocent, it it was beautiful. So that's my funny memory (I hope you laughed as much as I do).

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    15. Farting in your face...oh boy that reminds me of my brothers. They never ever beat me up, but I was farted on plenty of times.

      On a serious note - I think four year old DM was endearing. I do hope that in adulthood, you're learning how to distinguish when people really need you to look for that hole in their pants, and when they actually just want to fool you. If the difference is that you don't get a fart in the face, well, I think it's worth it, right?

      Hugs,

      Jonsi

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    16. I hate my iPhone. So it was one day he might have a hole in his pants. And I was naive and innocent AND it was beautiful.
      I sound like a crazy person with this ridiculous autocorrect!

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    17. Having recently used an IPod thing recently with autocorrect, I can actually say that I understand your plight. (Every other word, I was like, 'What the heck? That's not the word I want, stop it!')

      Hehe, I knew what you were saying. I just tried to mentally autocorrect your autocorrections.

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    18. Thank goodness!
      But honestly, I'm still the little one looking for the hole just in case. But I'm learning. I guess I need a few more farts lol! Which is why your blog, and many other are so valuable. It's different perspectives for sure, but having an experienced and 'feeling' network is invaluable. I appreciate you all. :)

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    19. I appreciate you too, DM. And your fart stories. :)

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    20. Oh god, I'm going to now be know as the soapy fart girl! Lol

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    21. BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Well, that's quite a reputation to live up to. Hahahaha, this has really made me laugh. Thanks DM.

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  25. I hate to ruin this beautiful moment with a tacky comment....
    So I won't.
    But I wanna!

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    1. Oh. Oh dear. I...I think I can see where you're going with this. Get out of our special moment, Q! Me and Upsi are hugging and crying it out.

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    2. Your little devilish boobies-are-touching instinct always makes me laugh and disarms me - there's no way you could ruin what we got goin on. This shit is rock solid.

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    3. HAHAHAHAHA. You went there. Hahahahaha. There's such strength to be found in all those boobies-are-touching moments.

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  26. For sure, I am the Queen of the Narc-Injured "Walking Wounded." I'm on the mend, but I can still be pretty reactive at times and I make no bones about it. That's MY shit and (damnit, damnit, damnit!!) I gotta own it.
    I just hate it when that happens, yk? I really do have to walk away and calm my ass DOWN. And then look at, "OK, TW, what's up with YOU? That your panties are all in a twist about this particular situation?" Since I'm in the realm of feelings-NOT facts-that's where I have to start diggin.'
    So as I said above, THIS particular situation cut through my trust stuff like a chainsaw on over-drive. THAT'S what was troubling to ME. Trust is the absolute foundation of ALL relationships; without trust, you got nothin,' nada to allow a relationship to grow-never mind blossom.
    So that's my stuff. And yes, I did notice the newer Bloggers really wrestled with this whole mess and in my mind was "Sit on your hands, TW, just sit on your hands and trust the process. Allow people the experience of bringing this home to THEMSELVES." So FWIW, here's the unbridled "sat on" stuff I really wanted to say:
    "Y'all, you've just started Bloggin' And I am so damn happy to see y'all I can hardly tell ya how GREAT it is to see some of the younger folks CATCHING ON so much sooner than I did. It'll save you YEARS of your life in every way. This part? The part you're in now? Leeme tell ya, it IS the pits, it truly is. And I'm sorry this mess took place just as you were finding your way around your life and your "neighborhood." It seems to me there's a whole bunch of FEAR behind the words I've been reading and the unspoken fear was, "OMG, if I make ONE "false move" I'm gonna get flamed!"
    No, you're not. Now I can TELL YOU THAT and it won't mean squat: You FEEL as you FEEL, OK? But if you look and really listen to the music behind your words, I think you're gonna find fear in all it's permutations. It's that fear that's primal to any ACoN or anyone who has been systematically bullied and abused throughout their lives. It's that same fear that kept many of us alive and on our toes because we HAD TO BE. So do what ever YOU feel YOU need to do to feel SAFE. YOUR SAFETY TRUMPS EVERY OTHER CONSIDERATION, first, last, always. But please take a bit of time to really break down your feelings. For me it works generally like this: Fear+Hurt=Anger. Both Fear and Anger have been huge motivators in my life for the negative stuff, but once I learned how to USE IT positively, they changed my life. Irrevocably. (That's not to infer I can't be destructive, particularly to myself-oh yeah, I can do that too, but no where NEAR the way I used to do or be.)
    We "loose" so much in this medium (the internet). Just keep Bloggin' to the extent you feel comfortable, or adding comments. But I don't want anyone left with the THOUGHT this type of situation arises with any regularity. It doesn't. It never has. Not in the years I've been around, FWIW.
    TW

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  27. At this stage of the game I am pathological about calling people on their shit. In the last conversation with my mother when I was finally telling her I remember everything about the horrid childhood I suffered at her hands. Every time I recounted a specific, she kept repeating, Oh I did not, oh I did not, oh I did not.
    I said mom you used to leave me all day at Krogers (an american grocery chain) while you went out with guys and eff'ed them. There was this silence on the other end.
    She said No.
    That was an Albertson's. (Another american grocery chain.)
    Like it made so much difference and some how exonerated her that I didn't remember the exact name of my daily prison.
    And no. I am not displacing any anger at my mother on any one else.
    I am just not going to let people, anyone, tell me I can't believe my own eyes and ears.

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    1. I swear, details only matter to narcissists when they can use them to their benefit.

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    2. "I am just not going to let people, anyone, tell me I can't believe my own eyes and ears."

      ^Truth!

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  28. This was the same (and last) conversation with her that ended by her saying "that's not even the gun we used."
    When I confronted her about buying a gun the day they capped that guy.

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  29. I may be hi-jacking you thread, but I didn't say the word fuck!

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    1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! This tickles me.

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  30. BWHAHAHAHAAA!
    q, That's IT-right there. That is absolutely the *best* synopsis/out-take I've seen yet re: conversations/interactions with N's. Yeah, I did remember The Barbarian's comment about the weapon, another "Barbarian-ism." Wanna BET her attorney didn't DARE let her show-boat on the stand for EXACTLY this reason?
    OK. I'll shut up now, but there it is, in all it's unvarnished gory!
    TW

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  31. "Walking Wounded." This reminds me that today I was thinking about 'surviving'. We had a crazy day at work and people kept saying, "but we survived it". Did we have a choice?..... Like with our childhood, did we have any choice but to keep going along and breathing and eating and trying to make a future? Next time someone says that to me at work I think I'll just lay on the floor with a little sign that says, 'no I did not survive it', LOL.

    Q's Sis

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  32. Hello Jonsi,
    As my name has been mentioned in this post I feel I should comment on the following paragraph.
    “We’ve already heard charity BS apology and most of us didn’t buy it; so hearing it again through a third party was only going to change their minds of people like Trisha, Molly, Kitty and CZBZ who all apparently don’t recognise when they are being manipulated more than a thirteen year old peinerschnitzel”
    “People like Molly?” With respect you don’t know me.
    My opinion of charity hasn’t changed, I haven’t taken sides and I am not easily manipulated.
    I made my comment on CS’s site because I find aggression very upsetting. I believe that people act as they do because of past experiences and the positive or negative contingencies associated with those experiences.
    Some years ago a member of my extended family went to prison for murdering a woman. He stabbed her more than 100 times because he didn’t like something she said. Someone else in my FOO has broken legs and ribs etc of his wives and girlfriends because they disagreed with his opinion. Which is probably why I am passionate about everyone being allowed their own opinion.
    I’m not telling you this for drama or sympathy; I am just explaining why I hate aggression of any kind. Aggression is a trigger for me, simple as that.
    Molly

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  33. "With respect you don’t know me." This is one of those sentiments I just can't get behind. I assess based on what I see. Be it five seconds or five words, I assess. I don't know everything about you. I do know some things about you. It's kind of black and white thinking to tell me I don't know you. I know enough to have made an assessment.

    Having said that, I heartily agree that everyone has a right to their own opinion. I'm sorry to hear of the brutality that came from some of your extended family members and I can understand why those experiences would make you wary of aggression and aggressive tactics. I genuinely hope that, in spite of those things, you still feel comfortable enough to assess situations for yourself and share your own opinions on them.

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