Monday, October 15, 2012

#nsilsworld

The following is a selection of tweets from NSIL that I'm going to be dissecting for the purpose of furthering my understanding of how the malignant narcissist's mind works as well as delving deeper into the world that DH came from. DH and I have had a number of discussions about his sister over the past few days, in part because she has always been a weak spot for him and we're wondering, with the holidays coming up, what kinds of bombs might be dropped on him in regards to her. As with all of my past tweet analyses, the following tweets are merely a sampling of the total that are available; I pick the ones that stand out the most to me as being particularly narcissistic in their delivery. I'm going to be handling my analysis a little differently this time in that I'm going to include my responses to some of the tweets that are most disturbing to me. I'd say "enjoy" but I think we all know that this isn't really an enjoyable process. Enlightening, perhaps. But not enjoyable. [My thoughts and, in some cases responses are in red]

September 21, 2012
Grudges are stupid so everyone is my friend now hello
This is clearly a lie aimed at pacification. Though we have no idea what issue NSIL was apparently holding a grudge about, it seems to me that she is content to use twitter as a means to publicize every emotional-fart she has and then move on from it without ever truly making an attempt at problem-solving. She has falsely attributed negativity to grudges because she has been taught to see anger as a bad thing: for NSIL, holding anyone accountable for their transgressions is not allowed, so she has learned to let everything go. This kind of thinking, in my opinion, is what has led her to fill her life with an astounding number of assholes, users, and abusers. I don't think she really believes that "everyone is her friend" any more than she believes that anger is stupid. Instead, she probably feels that she is not allowed to be angry, and therefore chooses not to deal with it for any longer than it takes to tweet about it.

September 21, 2012
I'm too generous, it's a problem
So, is this the same girl who, just a few hours before tweeted about how "grudges are so stupid" and "everyone is her friend"? Now, she is tweeting about how she feels taken advantage of. Isn't that what this translates to? Being generous is generally considered a good thing, according to most people. But claiming that she is too generous says to me that she probably feels that she is giving too much to too many people who are not necessarily giving anything in return. NSIL is claiming that she is a giver and everyone else is a taker. And yet, we're supposed to believe that this girl, a self-proclaimed "friend of all," doesn't hold any grudges against the people who are taking too much of what she is willingly offering. I'm not buying that shit.

September 22, 2012
cant feel NOTHIN

September 23, 2012
This girl is FINALLY getting a new car. #hallelujah #beamer #benz #orbentley #imthinkinallthree
Yes folks, someone did apparently buy her a new car. No, it was not a Beamer, Benz, or a Bentley, though, from the pictures she posted, it is a nice ride. It's an interesting gift to have gotten, considering her recent decision to drop out of college and move back home, but I don't think the two events are unrelated, nor do I doubt the list of strings attached. When I read that her parents were buying her a car, I immediately tried to understand the likely connection between her decision to drop out of school and her NM's decision to buy her a car. To me, it almost seemed that the car was a reward for NSIL's choice to move back home. Why? Perhaps NMIL is so eager not to "lose this child" as she's "lost DH" that she's willing to buy herself a little more time by way of expensive and flashy material bullshit. Perhaps she really wanted NSIL to come home (even though, in the scheme of things it looks "bad" for her to have an "unsuccessful" daughter). Perhaps she already has future plans concerning how she'll use the car as a means to control NSIL, after all, what is the likelyhood that NSIL legally owns the thing or that the bills and registration are in her name? It's more likely that the car, which NSIL was probably desperate for (because car equals freedom, right?) will just be a tool for manipulation down the road. And beyond all of that, the bigger the bling, the stronger the strings, right? Look how generous Mommy is, buying her derelict daughter a car. Boy, if NSIL doesn't make it now...well, no one can blame Mommy-Dearest, right? After all, she DID buy her that nice new car and all.

September 23, 2012
#IfYouKnowMe you know I do what I want
Curious, what do you consider to be "knowing you?" Are you talking, passed-you-on-the-street-knowing-you, or shared-the-elevator-with-you-knowing-you, or born-out-of-the-same-vagina-as-you-knowing-you? Let me just say, I know you enough to know that you do what your NM manipulates you into doing. And that's not "doing what you want" in my book. Beyond that, I've never much liked people who say things like, "I do what I want." It comes off sounding incredibly selfish, which again, sounds about right on par with who you are.

September 23, 2012
Could I go to sleep for a couple of days
NSIL tweets a whole lot about her insomnia, and I believe that she's not lying about it. It is my understanding, both through research and personal experience, that contrary to popular belief, those who are depressed usually sleep very little, rather than sleep too much. You know that portrait of the depressed individual who spends her time sleeping the day away? From what I have learned, that is simply not accurate. Those who are depressed may spend a lot of time in bed, but they don't do a whole lot of sleeping. It would be remiss of me to make such a statement as a point in fact, and I welcome criticism on the subject, but that is the conclusion I have come to. And so, NSIL's constant tweets about being in bed at odd hours but never being able to sleep, or having restless sleep in general, all point to the (rather unsurprising and not exactly newsworthy) theory that she is deep in a pit of depression.

September 25, 2012
I need that sleep water or Zzzquil or sleeping pills or a blunt right now

September 25, 2012
sick&sad

September 25, 2012
In one of those I hate the world, don't look or talk to me, moods. Fuck Tuesdays
Why do I have the feeling that everyday is one of those days for her and that "I hate the world, don't talk to me" is the only mood she's capable of, other than, perhaps the rare, extreme, and polar opposite moments she has when she's "just so excited!" When she expresses thoughts like these (which are often) it makes all those pictures of her smiling self so much creepier. The two don't match up: her smiling face and her despairing thoughts just don't mesh.

September 25, 2012
They told me to worry about my self & my self only. Maybe that's just how it's going to be.

September 26, 2012
dobby has no master dobby is a free elf
This one annoyed me at first glance and disturbed me at second. She's quoting Dobby from J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter series for those of you who don't know; and I don't think there is really a whole lot of explanation needed as to what it was that Dobby was saying. He was a slave who became a free elf, so naturally, NSIL was trying to say that she was enslaved but has either been set free or escaped. The disturbing part for me is that [Spoiler! Spoiler!] in the final book of the series, Dobby dies. Now, I highly doubt NSIL took that into consideration when she thought it up to use as a "symbol of her rebellion" or whatever, but still, I found it to be disturbing. And of course, most disturbing of all, is that NSIL seems to think she has even remotely broken away from the puppet master who is still very much running the show.

September 26, 2012
I'm hilarious and if you don't agree you're irrelevant.

September 26, 2012
So motherfucking bored.
Yeah. It must be boring picking out your new car and getting your hair and nails done and throwing parties every weekend and not having a job or going to school. More likely, you're just resenting the fact that NM has been gallivanting around the States, going on lavish vacations with her boyfriend (excuse me) fiance and leaving you behind, all alone in that big, empty house.

September 26, 2012
hope you realize
What? Who? Are you talking to me? I just love the fact that NSIL uses Twitter like a virtual diary but never gets any further in her analysis of life than writing 120 characters about it and then moving on. And the reason she keeps tweeting about the same shit is because she's too lazy to do anything about her crappy life and so she just keeps reliving it from moment to moment, hour to hour, and day to day. Like most of the other tweeters out there, she writes in such vague terms that it's often impossible to tell who or what she's talking about. Twitter is essentially just the virtual toilet paper she wipes her virtual ass with. She's just clogging shit up with it.

September 28, 2012
I lick the gun when I'm done cause revenge is sweet

September 29, 2012
You're not even worth it

September 29, 2012
Can't believe I will finally have a nice car. people, do you remember when the jeep would take ten mins to start?

September 29, 2012
I'M DONE. The shit I hear lol

September 29, 2012
did a little switcherrooo and got a more bad ass whip. check insta soon yall

September 29, 2012
If anyone is finna see my new whip and get crazy tonight, come over #NSILSWORLD #LAMBORGHINI #MERCY #PARTY

September 30, 2012
I just wanna have confidence
This commentary is so insanely obnoxious to me. Like, what? She thinks that tweeting about wanting confidence is going to make it miraculously show up on her damn doorstep one day?

October 1, 2012
Those who are the hardest to love...Need it the most.
Let's just read into those dot dot dots: Those who are the hardest to love (like me!) need it the most. First of all, what the hell does that mean, "hardest to love?" To me, it sounds like she's all caught up in what amounts to self-flagellating crap where she's "whipping herself" for being such a loser/joke/idiot/fool/hag. And aw, don't we all just feel so bad for her, since she somehow needs more love than the rest of us because she's just such an awful person that in fact no one currently loves her? So, what she's saying is that she gets no love because she is unlovable and she's unlovable because she gets no love. That kind of mentality just about sums up any ACoN I've ever known who hasn't made it out of their dysfunctional role. She's creating her own circle of self-hatred and seems to not know (or want to learn) how to break it.

October 1, 2012
I'm too smart for college
Minor correction: College. is too smart. for you.

October 1, 2012
someone text me and make me smile #badday #badmood #badmonth
Um yeah, quick someone, text her and make her smile, before she attempts to kill herself and then blames the world for not texting her in time. And by the way, Holy-Demanding-Dickheads, Batman!

October 2, 2012
someone lay with me and give me a massage

October 2, 2012
i would absolutely LOVE to shave my head or cut my hair super short. it is the ultimate test of self confidence. #propstomiley #tooscared

October 2, 2012
"We accept the love we think we deserve.."
Does she have any idea what this even means? And if so, what the hell she gonna do about it? It's really quite obvious: If she would just quit accepting her NM's "love" then maybe her life would start to move forward.

October 3, 2012
moms tellin me to date the cute boy addicted to heroin on rehab with dr.drew. good advice mama.
The tweets about Mommy Dearest are so, so telling. When I read this one, DH and I talked about it for a while, trying to imagine how that conversation went. We figured that NMIL walked by NSIL, who was watching some t.v. show and glanced at it long enough to see the "cute" boy, whom she then used to taunt her daughter (who desperately wants a boyfriend). The thing is that even NSIL realized the cruelty in that comment; both because NMIL didn't really care enough to pay attention to the fact that the "cute boy" was a heroin addict and that, even if she had, that probably wouldn't have stopped her from suggesting it anyway. And of course, beyond that, is the cruel joking going on at NSIL's expense.

October 4, 2012
All I know is that I won't be able to handle a replay of the past

October 4, 2012
people i need help. should i dye my weave like this [picture of a model]
I think it's pretty clear that she needs help on a much deeper level than what color she should dye her hair.

October 4, 2012
she had hair so long it look like weave [picture of herself in the mirror, obviously showing off her “weave”]

October 4, 2012
bouta get ttRiiiPPppYYy with [a friend who’s still in highschool]

October 4, 2012
YOU ARE ALL SO STUPID FOR NOT GOING TO [concert at a club that’s actually near our house] OMG I MET PAULY D
Gotta admit, I zeroed in on this one both because of the subject matter (anyone who's excited about meeting "Pauly D" is a few beers short of a sixpack, if you ask me) and because of the fact that NSIL was only about fifteen minutes away from our house. I can't tell you how many times DH expressed frustration and sadness over the fact that, even when NSIL got her liscense two years ago, she still never showed even a slight interest in coming to visit us. When she first started driving, I told DH that it wouldn't be realistic to expect her to drive to our house for a while because she was still a new driver and it was a lot of highway driving; but we both knew that she was never going to come, even with plenty of driving time under her belt. Her lack of driving experience didn't have anything to do with the fact that she wasn't coming to visit. Her lack of interest in DH's life however, did.

October 5, 2012
pretty sure i burned off everything i ate in the past 18 years dancing
Pretty sure that you're obsessed with losing weight and that no matter how much weight you lose or how skinny you get, you're still going to be miserable.

October 5, 2012
everyone home this weekend HMUUUUU

October 5, 2012
i challenge anyone that says THEIR bed is the comfiest because mine is the comfiest in all the land [tweeted at roughly 1:30 in the afternoon]
One of many tweets about how she's in bed in the middle of the afternoon as a result of her late-night partying and insomnia.

October 5, 2012
Annoyed as fuck. Dont use me to party at my house people. and dont steal my damn dog.
But wait, wasn't she just inviting everyone and anyone to her house for a party? This girl spends about as much time telling people she "isn't having a party" as she does telling them that she is. And then she shows resentment when people show up at her house to party, or when she puts herself out there to be used. I find it annoying that she willingly offers herself and her shit up to people because she thinks it will make her more popular or loved, and then turns around and complains about how "everyone is using her" and the type to show up at her house are the type to steal her dog.

October 5, 2012
showed mom my outfit for pretty lights and she said it looks like something marilyn would wear.. [variety of happy face icons and heart icons]
This is one of the most disturbing tweets to me. I read this and said, OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GOD. That bitch's parenting liscense should have been revoked YEARS ago. First of all, you can just hear NSIL's deep-seeded and ever-unmet need for approval in this type of commentary; like she's just dying for attention from her mother and when she gets it, she is over the moon. What this also tells me is that NMIL knows that Marilyn Monroe is NSIL's icon and that she is encouraging it; and has been for a long time. And this kills me! MM is one of the LAST women I would encourage my daughter to choose as a role model. As TW said, MM is a cautionary tale, at best, not someone to model your damn life after. This comment from NMIL just smacks of cruelty to me and I truly believe that it is all intentional.

October 5, 2012
shouldn't care but i do

October 6, 2012
Im a good nurturer, if im with you and and i like you a a person and you're beyond fucked up i promise i'lll take care of you.

October 6, 2012
I'm ecuadorian so I'm allowed to talk bad about spaniards if i want, IGHT?!

October 6, 2012
banger in [slang for town nearby] errybody go

October 7, 2012
i miss you

October 7, 2012
Waiting for someone who understands. aka no one.
I read this and was like, "Where the hell are her millions of fucking friends?" I mean, I know the answer to that: What fucking friends? No one she knows is a friend, she's all alone in the world. It just kills me that she has so many people in her life who don't give a shit about her. And then I get to feeling sad for DH, who was that alone for so long too. NSIL has opened up a world of understanding for us in terms of DH's own past, and though it's a sad one, I think it's really important that we examine it for a while longer. There is just so much here, sad and depressing as it is, for DH to learn about himself. The other thing that makes me sad about this is that, if she was just willing to stop bitching and moaning; to start making some different life choices; and if she was willing to open up a line of communication between herself and her brother, things could be very different. She doesn't have to be alone. I know they all walk around saying that it's JONSI who hates THEM, and that's why we are estranged, but that's simply not true. Even now, if NSIL was willing to make some changes in her life (I will admit, they would have to be extreme) then I would not have a problem with her being a part of our lives. I would have liked to have been her friend and I think I could have made a good one to her. I also realize that if she were to ever hear that, she'd probably laugh uncontrollably and reanimate her own hatred for me. So she can just "wait for someone to understand" all she wants. She's still going to be alone, because the one person in life who could have understood her the most is not going to come to her. He just can't do it.

October 8, 2012
I couldn't care less what you think about me or what I'm doing with my life.
This is a lie. She cares a hell of a whole lot about what people think about her and what she's doing with her life.

October 8, 2012
I don't want perfect, I want honest.
This is also a lie. She can no more listen to the truth than she can walk away from her toxic mother. Those two actions go hand-in-hand and likely can't occur without each other.

October 8, 2012
Mama made spaghetti and meatballs and apple pie...i am loved
After the Marilyn comment, this one is the second most disturbing to me because everyone who has even half a brain knows that this represents an obviously toxic system of beliefs. Anyone who ties food with love has some very serious issues that they will likely be battling for the rest of their lives. I know there are so many people in our community here who's parents used food as either a punishment or a reward and who are now dealing with the long-term effects of such treatment. This comment hit close to home for me because I can see this mentality in DH too; where he confuses appreciation of food with love. It's sad to me that, when DH offers to make me food and I politely decline, he takes it personally. Just the other day, he was kindly making lunch for me, which turned out to be quite delicious and I was verbally appreciative of it. He told me, "I don't know what I like better; when I make food for myself and you ask for it because it's good, or when I make you something and you enjoy it as much as you are now." I think it's human nature to feel good when someone appreciates something you have done for them; but it's dysfunctional to tie up your self-worth with food, or in how much you can do for another person. Fuck that bitch for doing this to her children, for doing this to my husband. He's getting better about it, but I have seen DH look so damn rejected if he asks to make me food and I say, "No thank you." Because for him, food equals love, and if you say no to the food, you're saying no to the love. People, spaghetti and meatballs and apple pie is not love. It's just spaghetti and meatballs and apple pie.

October 8, 2012
Finna work at Hooters
[Sigh]. Though I'm tempted to get into my thoughts on why Hooters is such an insulting, demeaning, and classless establishment, I'll just say this: I don't believe that any woman with any real self-esteem would eat there, let alone work there.

October 8, 2012
I wish it was acceptable for girls to be bald cause I would chop this mane of right now
This one confuses me a bit. She tweets so many pictures of her long hair, and talks about it incessantly, but then comes out with this one, about how badly she wants to be bald. Maybe she's trying to prove that she's courageous or that she "doesn't care" what people think and all that, but she's really failing miserably. First of all, I don't think she could hack it if she cut her hair short, let alone shaved her head; and secondly, she really fails to walk the walk when we get down to the business at hand. I really think she's trying too hard to pull off the "rebellious teenager" thing. It would have been more rebellious of her to stay at school and to call her brother than it is for her to smoke crack and shave her head or whatever. I think everybody's expecting her to go off the deep end, a'la Britney Spears circa 2009. Nobody would have expected her to walk away from the bullshit. She's just living up to the role, not rebelling from it.

October 8, 2012
Guy Friend: I can always drop out of school and make a strip club/cat rescue shelter and call it Titties & Kitties. Meeeeeeeeeeoww
NSIL: i wanna be the star
Aspiring to greatness, I see.

October 9, 2012
i wonder what you're thinking about

October 9, 2012
Don't tell me I need to accept myself the way I am. If I can change it I will.
A lot of talk. No follow through.

October 9, 2012
Do I get a discount for being cute
No. In some places, you'll get raped for it though.

October 10, 2012
God gives his hardest battles to his toughest soldiers.
Funny note about this one: Exhibit A also tweeted this, which I believe is a quote from Marilyn Monroe. Clearly, these girls think that they are some of God's "toughest soldiers." But I'm going to go ahead and disagree with that sentiment.

October 10, 2012
Guys are either attractive and assholes or ugly and nice. No in between.

October 10, 2012
My boobs used to be SO big wtf man
Tends to happen when you wake up and decide not to eat. There is quite a bit of fat tissue in that particular spot. I have a feeling that she knows this and is therefore tweeting about how much smaller her boobs are (or she thinks they are) because she's hoping she can subtly lay the groundwork to all of her followers that she's getting skinnier. And if she can maintain the weight, she'll just have NMommy buy her a new pair in a few years.

October 11, 2012
I know the only words that you have for me are give up and get out

October 11, 2012
I am human and I need to loved

October 11, 2012
Wearing mamma moneys bra lawl
This one was actually originally tweeted by one of NSIL's "friends" who is still in highschool and who she is apparently hanging out with quite a bit because all of her "real friends" are at college. Anyway, this one was a bit eery to me and sparked a couple of thoughts that I then discussed with DH. Those thoughts were 1) That a lot of people seem to like to call NMIL "Mommy," "Mama," or some other variation thereof and 2) That NMIL likes to give out her bras to a lot of people. In terms of people calling NMIL "Mama," I have a short story to tell you, and that is that before I met NMIL, I remember asking DH if I could call her "Mama Dukes." I don't know why I wanted to do that, other than that I wanted to give the mother of the man that I loved a friendly name, something that could maybe just be a sweet thing between the two of us. And then I met the bitch and thought, "Um. No. That's not gonna fit." I had asked DH if I could call his mother that, and then she asked his mother if I could call her that, though I can't remember what her response was. I don't think she seemed to care either way. Anyway, I remember the first time we went to her house for me to meet her and we pulled up the driveway and got out of DH's car. NMIL was standing at the front door, she walked out, with her two dogs running around and yipping happily. And I saw her standing there and said, "Hi, Mama Dukes!" sine I figured it wouldn't be weird or anything, because DH had already asked her if I could call her that. She ignored it, and in fact, if I remember correctly, she ignored me. She said hello to DH, but not to me; and didn't respond at all to my greeting. So I dropped that immediately. I find it funny though, that so many of DH and NSIL's friends all like to call NMIL "Mom." Like they all wish she was really their mother or something, you know, since she's so fucking "cool" or "bang-able" and all that. And on the bra thing: fucking creepy dude. She gave me bras once, all the while making weird underhanded comments about the size of my tits or whatever (I was pregnant and they were pretty comically large). But like, does she make a habit of this? Lending out her bras so that she can just feel like "one of the girls?" Eesh.

October 13, 2012
I knew there was a reason I shouldn't put in effort.

October 13, 2012
Why was I born with emotions

October 13, 2012
My moms view of Las Vegas...WHY AM I NOT THERE [Pic of said view]
Seeing as how NMIL is engaged and all, I'm wondering if this is it and she's out there in Vegas getting eloped. Could be. Or it could be that she's just traveling some more and sending the pictures back to her daughter to rub in the fact that she's out doing whatever the hell she wants to do while her daughter is stuck at home, all alone, with the only two friends she has in the world: her dogs.

53 comments:

  1. "October 8, 2012
    Do I get a discount for being cute
    No. In some places, you'll get raped for it though."

    This just took it over the line.

    I get that you're trying to learn about and dissect the NPD mind. But you are stalking, copying, and ripping apart the tweets of a child - a particular subset of society that are pretty much all self- focused at that age (although in varying degrees). It's the way they're built, even if your NSIS has been damaged by her FOO. She's a victim too; she just doesn't know it yet.

    They're your DH's family. They've had a profound effect on you and your family and from what I understand you're now NC. Continuing to dig in this wound is not going to allow it, or your DH, to heal. My two cents would be that you step back, resist the temptation to check up on NSIS and ex friends, and let them go on their way. If they're not directly contacting you and creating havoc in your lives, let them go. Get your husband into counseling if he's not already there. Consider it for yourself as well as you seem profoundly affected by the actions of his family. Continue to be there for him and don't constantly look for proof that they're broken to justify where he ended up. He's with you. They are broken. You escaped. Let them go.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Boy Anon, you know where to hit me where it hurts.

      I don't see it as stalking to read and analyze the tweets of someone who puts this stuff out in a public place on the internet for everyone to read. If she doesn't want people to read it, then she shouldn't be putting it there, and if she hopes people don't have opinions on what she has to say, then she's a fool.

      And you rushing to defend this poor "child" doesn't make me think of you in a good way, whoever you are. Look, you can define "child" however you want to, and I'll define it however I want to. And in my book, eighteen isn't a child. She's an adult legally and in some ways, has been one for a long time emotionally.

      I see her as a victim, but I also don't think that means I don't get to have a say in what she's choosing to do with her victimhood.

      And, by the way, who are you to say what will heal me, my husband, and our family, and what won't?

      "If they're not directly contacting you." They are. So like, now do I have your permission to continue "stalking" them?

      The reason why I say you "hit me where it hurts" is because I've started to mention here on my blog that I myself wonder if I've crossed the line between checking up and stalking. But that's something I'll decide for myself on my own time. I don't need you, ANON, deciding it for me. Whenever I have asked my fellow friends and ACoNs to offer their opinions, they have always done so in a kind and respectful way. You, however, with your suggestions that I "get my husband and myself into therapy" seem to me, to be hiding behind a mask of anonymity to get across the idea that somehow I'm the bad guy who's getting my jollies going after a child.

      Delete
  2. I remember when calculators were big machines with cogs and cams and a hand crank. I remember looking at hot food out of a microwave like maybe I would catch cancer after I ate it.
    I remember seeing a UPC code on a can and not believing that a scanner could read it and pull up the item and price and adjust inventory all in nano seconds.
    I remember cell phones that were as easy to use as tying a note to a brick and throwing it across town and trying to hit the window of the person you are calling.
    Which makes me not so young anymore.
    I really don't mind that I will be dead from old age before there is too much more evolution in technology.
    Because if this is what it's used for, I would have to throw myself out a window any way.
    There is only so much self absorbed stupidity that one person can take.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Betty Friedan, you seem pretty lively for having died in'06.
    So how long have you been waiting for Jonsi to cross the line that only exists for you?
    I have a feeling that bloggers know what they want to blog about and when they want to blog about it.
    It isn't for us to make sense of, it's for the blogger.
    When and if Jonsi feels this part of the process is unproductive Jonsi will do away with it. Until then I suggest you get find another place to spew.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "So how long have you been waiting for Jonsi to cross the line that only exists for you?"

      Thanks, Q. Makes me think maybe this particular anon really was waiting for me to say just the right thing so that she could "prove" that I'm just the bad guy everyone likes to think I am.

      Delete
  4. Shit. I am so sick of the moralizing. if you crossed this anonymous person's line, s/he can stop reading!!!

    what we gotta shut up on our own blogs cuz a bunch of fuckin nuns get all flustered reading them?

    as to the line crossing comment: women do get raped. for being cute. prancing the tweetosphere in blissful ignorance of that danger, of any of the dangers she plays so freely with is no longer child's play. she's a grown ass woman. I took no offense to Jonsi's commentary and I consider myself a feminist.

    don't like it? move along. so simple!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I wonder if any of the ANONS that leave these types of comments ever really think we're going to just shut down our blogs and stop doing what we're doing, just because they graced us with their infinite wisdom?

      And I'm glad you saw past my sarcasm about the rape comment to the meaning underneath it. I too consider myself a feminist and didn't believe I was "crossing the line."

      Delete
    2. another thing that bugged me was about how you're digging in the wound and keeping yourself from healing. I don't like when people start telling us how exactly to heal - their way.

      your blog is 'truth is in the details' - don't like how in depth the discussion is, keep strolling along then! you give a helluva case report and who is anybody to pull you off the stage with their big giant cane???

      Delete
    3. Good point, dear friend. I forgot for a moment that my blog is all about the little moments, and that's what I write about. I never said that everyone has to read about them, OR like them.

      Delete
  5. The "Know-It-All" Trolls who hide behind "anon" COULD use the "delete" key on their 'puter, but hey, it's so much easier to STALK a Blogger, treat them with thinly veiled distain and contempt directly intended to HURT and retreat into your very apparent ignorant assholery.
    Clearly, another "self-absorbed" Narc "child" has once again unmasked themselves. You wanna put your POV out in cyberspace? Please do so: Set up your own Blog, treat the rest of the cyber world to your clearly inflated sense of self-importance/"knowledge:" Perhaps, just MAYBE at that time your POV will engender some creditability.
    Somehow, I sincerely doubt it.
    TW (Be back later, jonsi-great Post as usual, BTW)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The thing is that, as much as this comment might have bothered me, I wouldn't censor it because I believe everyone's opinions are valid and I want people (even the ones I disagree with) to have a voice here.

      There's just something about this particular voice that I really don't like. Rubs me the wrong way. I've had fellow bloggers disagree with me before. Even you, TW, have told me when you think I'm making the wrong choice. But, not like that. Not in that "But their DH'S FAMILY" kind of way.

      Delete
    2. Hi Jonsi,
      I think you´re right, it´s the tone of the comment that just doesn´t sit right. The reasoning is manipulative. I think for me is the way anon speaks as if from a higher ground rather than from an empathetic position. After all, like Q said, it obvious to anyone reading that you write this dissections to try to make sense of it. It kind of felt like anon was a parent telling you off. It really isn´t their call to tell you when to let go. In any case I think that happens naturally once the brain makes sense of it all.

      Delete
    3. "...the way anon speaks as if from a higher ground rather than from an empathetic position." I think that's it, Kara. That's exactly why it feels so off-putting. I also don't feel that I'm unempathetic towards my NSIL, and more recently, I've been attempting to express that in these twitter analyses.

      For myself (rather than because anon 'said so') I've been wondering when the time will come for me to let it go. In part, I am worried that I'll never really make sense of it all and that if that's what I'm waiting for, I may never want to let it go. So, if that happens, I'll just have to find another way to let it go, even if I haven't made sense of it all the way I want to. But I have faith in myself to figure that time out at my own pace, not someone elses.

      Delete
    4. Jonsi, I haven´t read all the posts about your NSil but the ones that I have read I did feel that you would really love to help her out of narcworld and that you feel for her and the pain of her situation.
      I think you´re right and that maybe we will never make sense of it all but I agree that then we´ll just have to find another way, at our own pace and "not someone else´s".

      Delete
    5. Her situation is sad to me because I think she actually has more depth of character than many other individuals I have encountered and I don't think she's exactly like her mother (yet). I see her stuck in a downward spiral and it's frustrating to watch, even though I certainly didn't have the kind of bond with her that DH had.

      And underneath all of that, I'm really worried for DH because I don't want him to get pulled down with her. There is a lot of fear in there for me, and DH is not yet over (and he may never be) his desire to want to save her. It's all so very sad and very frustrating to watch.

      I've seen this girl smiling in so many pictures, but I think the smiling is completely fake. There is a loneliness in her that she'll never find if she continues on this same path.

      Thanks for your input, Kara.

      Hugs,

      Jonsi

      Delete
    6. *Correction: "There is a loneliness in her that she'll never fix if she continue on this same path."

      Delete
    7. That last tweet is so sad. I thought of poor little Rapunzel, not allowed to leave the tower (or, in her case, the enchanted castle), rewarded for dropping out of college and staying with mommy forever, but then left alone all the time. Only mother Gothel is allowed to do the leaving.

      Delete
  6. Jonsi, Screw whoever this person ANON is. As others have said, if they are so offended, move on. Judging and condemning someone for trying to process is horse shit. I know that you really do care for and wish NSIL the best, and wish that you could help her...but you can't.

    OK, as for NSIL. Sigh. Double sigh. Triple sigh. I look at her tweets, and they could be from my NSis. In fact, as I'm struggling with a whole new batch of shit from NSis, and I look at these tweets, I realize how little my sister has changed in the 14+ years since she's been a teenager. I wish I could offer hope to you and DH that she might change. But from my view point, I haven't seen it. The entitlement, the self-hatred, and the blame just keep going round and round in their lives. My sister has been rewarded for being "broken" and running to my mother for so long, that she's about run herself into the ground.
    And just randomly, I remember wanting to shave my head bald at 18 too. I think I wanted someone to see past appearances. To really, really see me. For someone, anyone to give a flying fuck about me.
    Keep your head up friend.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was thinking about you and your sister as I was writing parts of this, Jessie. NSIL and your NSis are so similar. And I think of your sister's life as being the same future that NSIL will have if she doesn't stop what she's doing and head herself in a different direction.

      The comments from this ANON shook me because I don't write about this stuff to hurt her feelings; I write about it because I think there is healing in analysis, and it's something that DH hasn't done a whole lot of in his life and it's something that I want to work through with him. Since his sister's tweets went public, we've been able to see into the past couple of years of her life in a way that we weren't before and I think it's been really helpful.

      But, as always, reading it also makes me feel incredibly frustrated because the answer seems so simple. Kind of like diet and exercise are the "simple" answers to weight loss, but when you get down to it, people don't really want to do it because that's the hard part. So many people just want the magic pill that will fix things and there is no such thing. And that's NSIL's problem & your sister's problem, I think. They're so caught up in self-hatred that they can't see that their desire for the "magic pill" is going to kill them. And what they really have to do is quite simple. Difficult. But very simple.

      Delete
  7. And crap, I got distracted by the troll and forgot all the wonderful analysis you did. Which, by the way, I find very insightful in helping me process a lot of what I went through and go through.
    Anyways, you thing about the food struck up a memory. I can always remember feeling so loved and taken care of when my mom would spend Sundays cleaning and cooking a meal. I always felt happy. It's sad now that I associated basic care with being loved. Like all the ignoring and emotional detachment could be made up for by a lasagna. My mother still thinks that cooking me a meal equates her loving me (and requires the appropriate oohing and aahing. And god forbid you suggest that you'd prefer it prepared another way).

    Now don't get me wrong. I would love if someone took the time to cook my favorite meal (or any meal). And I like to make my kids' their favorite pasta or my husband his favorite meal. But it is not a substitute for loving them. It's just one of the things I like to do for them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The food thing seems to be such a common thread for so many of my friends who come from dysfunctional families. I saw NMIL use food so many times to hurt her kids - subtly calling them "fat," poking fun at their weight, using it as a reward, the list goes on. And apparently, according to NSIL's tweets, the abuse is just continuing.

      I mean, I agree - it's lovely to have someone prepare a favorite meal for you. But it is not the only thing required for love to exist, nor is it necessary. It's sad when food is the ONLY "love" that a person gets from his or her FOO. Really sad.

      Delete
  8. That's what their "love" is and does. An unhealthy, calorie-packed meal as proof of love for a girl who seems so eager to lose weight and might be starving herself much of the time. There's a metaphor in there. She knows her mother's love is unhealthy and unsavory. So she just avoids love itself altogether, the healthy stuff. And then she binges on her mother's spaghetti and meatballs.

    I don't want to sound like a nutrition fanatic, and we do have spaghetti in my home, but this whole situation is just so descriptive of the messed-up dynamic that it would be impossible to imagine, wouldn't it, for the girl to declare she was loved after her mother prepared chicken breast or fish in a veggie sauce with a nice salad. Because the mother wouldn't show her love that way. Perhaps because she knows her daughter has body image issues. Perhaps because she's the one carefully nurturing those issues.

    I can only imagine her cooking fattening meals and then "jokingly" putting her daughter down for being "chubby." Never loving her daughter exactly the way she is, and then preparing healthy meals and going for a walk or a jog together. Only the unhealthy extremes, both together.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow, PA. The details you just picked up on are SO key - you're right, and I totally missed it: NMIL showing her "love" by cooking a super unhealthy/fattening meal for a girl who is probably anorexic, and then probably finding ways to call her "chubby" afterwords.

      And I know what you're saying about not being a nutrition fanatic, there aren't too many people who never eat pasta or unhealthy meals every now and again - but what you've pointed out here is so subtle. What an awesome analysis.

      Delete
    2. Thanks :). I get it because I've sort of been there.

      It also occurred to me that the hair thing is expressive of a similar thing. People love me for my long, beautiful hair, and I must flaunt it (=I got spaghetti and meatballs and apple pie) vs. I want to be bald and thus refuse all this fake "love," not realizing there's something real out there (=refusing to eat). She can't just eat healthy. She can't just have a haircut she actually enjoys. She can't just love and be loved, but *really*.

      I really feel for this young woman. Some of this disordered thinking was mine, although I wasn't into being cute, thin, and popular - I was into being smart, dark, and cynical. It's really difficult to get out of it before you've actually had experience with a real person loving you unconditionally, modeling this, showing it - and she's unlikely to get that, now more than ever.

      Delete
    3. Let's not moralize spaghetti and meatballs, here. I currently have meatballs simmering in the crockpot for a spaghetti and meatball dinner for my kids. There is nothing wrong with making that meal for anyone, even if it has a lot of calories. It can be a part of a healthy diet.
      One of the reasons I make yummy and filling meals for my kids is because I love them. I care about their preferences. I have already promised to make my son pumpkin pie, at his request, and went to buy the pumpkin today.
      Whatever the failings of these particular individuals, it doesn't help any of us to moralize about things that have no moral value.

      Delete
    4. Woah dude. I actually can't tell if you're joking or not. This comment is...well, it's actually pretty funny.

      Delete
    5. Lady, I think you missed the point. Like, really missed it.

      Delete
    6. I actually wasn't joking. I thought this was a safe place to express our concerns and disagree with each other without making value judgements about each other. I like PA's point of view and her blog very much. I had enjoyed reading your blog here, too, Jonsi.
      But being referred to first as "dude" and then "Lady", instead of my name, which I offered freely instead of commenting anonymously, makes it seem like I am not welcome to express my concerns about things I disagree with. If that is the case, then I will excuse myself. If that is not the case, then maybe you can make a place for someone like me who is learning, albeit desperately slow, how to heal and understand and communicate about toxic parenting?

      Delete
    7. Listen, if you don't feel comfortable here then be on your way. I haven't made this blog for you and I don't intend on making this blog for you. I find it funny that you checked out my blog, started following me, and are now deciding to check out because you don't like my reaction to your bizarre commentary. Last time I checked, saying that I can't tell if you were joking and telling you that you missed the point are not judgements about your value. I prefer the term "assessment." And my assessment is that you missed the point of this post and the above commentary on this post by going on about the "moralization of spaghetti and meatballs" that you seem to think was going on here.

      Pretty sure it wasn't me who was the one making value judgements. If you don't feel this blog is helpful for you then move on. I certainly won't stop you.

      Delete
    8. Maybe there is a place for you out there somewhere. Like Dr. Coleman's website. Or Daily Strength. Considering that that was where I thought you came from when I first read your comment.

      It's really not about the food. It's about this: "Whatever the failings of these particular individuals, it doesn't help any of us to moralize about things that have no moral value." Doesn't help anyone, or doesn't help you? Moralizing things that have no moral value? I'm not the one preaching about how making "yummy" food for your kids is equated with love and coming to someone else's blog demanding that they change it into some kind of forum where I can "feel like I belong."

      Your accusations about whatever it is you think I'm doing here are vague and condescending. Like I said before, if you don't like what I'm doing here, then move on.

      Delete
  9. Jonsi, I am sorry that I have offended with my comments here. I had never assumed that you were writing this blog for me. Why would I assume that? I didn't say that you were making value judgements, either. I was trying to say that I wasn't making a value judgement when I disagreed with a point. I am still not quite sure why my initial comment was bizarre. I am certain that you are right that I missed the point, that is why I hope to be shown some patience, please. I was not made to feel uncomfortable here at all. I simply was inquiring whether or not I should excuse myself.
    I don't know quite where I went wrong here with my foray into commenting on your blog. I am sorry for being a bit dumb about it and for upsetting you. I am going through a very difficult time, and truth be told, I feel kinda desperate not to accidentally alienate myself from the first community of people who understand what I have been going through trying to undo toxic parenting.
    Again, I am sorry. If you can forgive me, I would like to remain as a reader and commenter.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow dude.

      You smell like a narc.

      Delete
    2. The way I interpret the discussion of spaghetti and meatballs is that when a parent lacks empathy for their child and is unable to emotionally tune in, feeding them a meal like that is no substitute for the love they require. The meal itself is not the issue - the issue is food being a charged subject for people who grew up needing love and empathy and maybe only getting fattening food and then remarks about how chubby they are getting.

      Does that help clarify the difference?

      Delete
    3. My mother making me a good meal was proof to her that she was a good mother. Instead of actually doing the hard work of loving me, she put on the image of a good mother.
      My grandmother also cooks me favorite meals. My grandmother takes the time to remember what I like. She spent time thinking about all her grandkids and making sure she had their favorite dish at Thanksgiving. She didn't do it to prove she loved. She just does love me, and it is ONE of the ways she likes to express that she is thinking of me. She does it because she wants to not to prove to me how wonderful she is.
      I also like cooking for my family (and I make a mean spaghetti too). I like doing all kinds of special things for them. But even if I didn't, I'd still be a good mom to them.
      Equating making a meal to love is the same as buying NSIL her new car, or her new purse, or her new whatever. They are all shiny (yummy,expensive) things meant to distract NSIL from seeing that her mother is just buying her off.

      Delete
    4. NMIL actually said to DH, "I was a good mom. I fed you." The proof, for her, was in the pudding.

      And for those who are "loved" that way, it just equates the idea that love can be bought or fed to us.

      Delete
  10. Jonsi,
    I was responding to your earlier comment when you posted the one at 1:41 PM. So I didn't see this one until after I posted.
    All I can say is I am so sorry. I have done something very offensive. I understand that based upon your reaction to my comments.
    I will leave, then. I am so sorry. Truly.
    Apparently I am so messed up that I can't even see how offensive I have been.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I would have to agree with Maree.
    Insinuating that Spaghetti and Meatballs are lacking in moral or spiritual fiber is an unfair and unfounded comment on the integrity of pasta dishes.
    I will acknowledge that I have personal experience with an unholy meat loaf sandwich that off loaded it's cargo of evil spirits and that they stampeded around my stomach in a most reckless manner until I performed a Zantac and Rolaid exorcism at the end of the day.
    Not the same thing.


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. OOh, Q, I've met that meatloaf sandwich. Except mine was a plate of fish and chips. And mine was not so easily exorcised. I thought for awhile that I survived...barely.

      Thanks for the smile today.

      Delete
    2. Like I said, Q: Apparently spaghetti is too sacred a topic to touch. ;o)

      Delete
    3. Bwhahahaha! Unholy meatloaf sandwiches!

      I was thinking that NMIL would say something to NSIL like: "Good thing I don't cook for you all the time because you'd be such a porker."

      My mother is totally bizarre about food. Acts like a martyr about cooking anything and what she does make tends to be bland (but don't dare do anything less than clear your fucking plate). Food is a life necessity that these narcs play keep away with. So, moralizing over meatballs when they are currency in an unequal relationship is actually a worthwhile endeavor.

      Delete
    4. Hey VR, Are you sure your mother didn't teach my mother to cook? Bland, bland, bland. But god forbid you ask for salt, or ketchup, or anything. That is offensive that you'd suggest you liked your food a different way. Recently, my mother was getting my son some grapes and started peeling them off the stem. I said, oh, don't he likes to peel them off (he's four, it's his food, and kids get fun from these types of things.) She got her knickers in a bunch and said, "WELL, what if I like to peel them off for him?!" Good lord lady. It's his grapes, what does it fucking matter to you?!

      Delete
    5. Oh, absolutely, Jessie. No adjusting the food with butter, salt, seasoning. Sacrilege! Be grateful for the stale breadcrumbs she deigned to gift you with put of her magnanimity!

      No wonder I have had food/addiction issues since I was 13. I've been starved my whole damn life.

      Delete
  12. I know Maree from another forum and "invited" her here. She has always - for years - been polite, honest, and decent in her online communication. She is very new to all this and I personally remember feeling very vulnerable and defensive, especially about my parenting, when I first started my journey. If we dare start questioning our parents' parenting, we suddenly become incredibly, painfully exposed. It takes a lot of time and support to overcome our fleas and our insecurities. All this might be moot, as Maree has already deleted most of her blog, but I still felt the need to chime in. It is a common flea to feel personally attacked and need to defend oneself when someone else makes a general observation - because we USUALLY ACTUALLY WERE in our FOO. I felt this. I did this. I don't feel or do this any more, but it took years. This defensiveness doesn't necessarily make one a narc, just a freshly aware ACoN. Tone is missing in our communication. I interpreted Maree's as being scared, cautious, and on the defensive. Mine here is slow and sad, and also a bit scared.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi PA,

      Thanks for weighing in. I have no problem with Maree or anyone else reading or commenting here, as my blog is public to all. I really read her initial comment here as being a joke, and it wasn't until I got to the last part that I got a little angry: "Whatever the failings of these particular individuals, it doesn't help any of us to moralize about things that have no moral value."

      I would have had a problem with this no matter who said it to me and would have responded the same way if it came from a close friend or loved one. She's vague but it came across to me sounding like an accusation. I also don't like her assessment that "it's not helping anyone." I find that offensive because at the very least, it's helping me, and who is to say otherwise?

      And really, what it comes down to is that anyone can read my blog. I'm not here to give people permission for that. It's a "read it or don't" kind of thing. I'm not sure what else to say except that it's totally up to Maree to decide for herself if she wants to be here and participate in the discussion, at the risk of being called out for something that I disagree with or feel offended over. It's not that I don't feel for her, but that I feel like I have limited patience for people coming here and telling me they want me to turn my blog into a forum or to stop moralizing about things or who miss the point entirely of what I'm trying to say.

      Though my interpretation of Marie's comment was very different, I think there is something valuable in this discussion and I think I may do a longer post about it. I appreciate that you came here and voiced your opinions and have stood up for a fellow blogger. Thanks PA, for sharing your interpretation. I'm going to think on this more, "This defensiveness doesn't necessarily make one a narc, just a freshly aware ACoN." It's a valid point and I want to think about it.

      Delete
  13. Jonsi, This is Maree, again. I am commenting using the anonymous option because I am planning on deleting my Google account. I hope that is okay.
    I know I should probably have stayed away, even if only for my own sake, but I felt compelled to come back and read a bit more and also to respond to some of your points in your latest comment here.
    I must have given the impression that I wanted you to create a forum for me. I don't know how I communicated that. I am sorry about that. I was only asking if I could still come here and read and comment, even though I had offended you with my initial comment. I had no impression that it was your job to do anything. I was asking for permission, because I felt embarrassed and sad that I had been offensive.
    My comment about moralizing things that have no moral value. Well, that I can only explain because I am a new Catholic. I had been conditioned, by my parents and by overbearing "friends" and by the public schools I went to, to believe that certain things were immoral that were in fact not immoral. These people used intimidation, condemnation, threats of damnation, and the silent treatment to make me believe that certain foods were bad, not recycling was sinful, not using cloth diapers was horrible, and so on ad nauseum. I am still very defensive about people making statements about those specific things with a moral judgement attached to them, and part of my faith conversion has had to include deprogramming myself. I still get triggered very easily if I am not careful, and yesterday I was already in a very low place.
    I know now that I shouldn't have said anything. No one else needs or wants to know what junk I am processing. That is why I went ahead and decided to take down my blog, too. I am getting triggered way too easily by blogging and reading other blogs. It is making me worse right now.
    Yet, because my deepest fear is that I am actually a narcissist just like my emotionally abusive mother, and that is exactly what you called me out for yesterday, it sent me into a bit of a spiral honestly and I just had to make one last attempt here to apologize and give an explanation (not an excuse). But again, I realize that I was not invited to share any of my thoughts, and I am coming to understand that my thoughts should not be shared (I am slow at learning this, about how to process things without sharing it with anyone else).
    So anyway, sorry for the rambling comment here. I guess I just hoped to demonstrate that my offensive mistake yesterday was not coming from a place of malice, but just that I am still so broken that I don't know how to behave.
    Sincerely,
    Maree

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Maree,

      There is a lot here to respond to and I'm thinking about turning my thoughts into a longer blog post because I have so much to say and so many things I'm thinking about.

      I don't know whether or not you're a narcissist, but what I do know is that many of the things you said reminded me of the narcissists I have known. There is nothing personal in it for me, only that you came to my blog and I felt put off by some of the things you said.

      Having said that, you keep asking me for permission for things that are not my responsibility to give you. What I can say is that, should you choose to comment my blog in the future, as an anonymous or not, I will publish your thoughts. I will also say when I disagree, when I don't understand something, or if I think you are way off base. Whether or not you choose to do that is your prerogative.

      I hear a lot of shoulds in your comments, both in this most recent one and in the previous ones. What it comes down to is that you can and should do whatever you want to do, whatever feels most comfortable for you, whatever you need to do.

      Having said that, if I had to do this over again, I don't know that I would have jumped down your throat so quickly. I think I would ask you to clarify yourself further, to get a better feel of what you had meant by the offending comment.

      When you get into morals, what's moral and immoral? Again, this isn't about your morals being right or wrong, or my morals being right or wrong. Maybe we have different morals and maybe we don't agree. I'm really not here to try and convince you that I'm right and you're wrong.

      I am, in fact, inviting people (all people) to comment here, just by virtue of the fact that my blog is public and my comments are open. The only reason I "moderate" them is to make sure that no one who happens along reveals my identity (mistakenly or otherwise). I don't censor my comments and respond to them according to my feelings.

      I feel badly that I have made you feel sad. My blog is still open, as it has always been, for you to read it or comment on it, anonymous or otherwise, should you choose. That choice is really up to you.

      Sincerely,

      Jonsi

      Delete
    2. Hi Jonsi,
      I wanted to try to reply directly to this comment. I just have a couple of questions and concerns.

      1 - It still troubles me that I sounded like a narcissist. Would you please tell me what I said that sounded that way? Or was it everything I said?

      2 - A couple of people have mentioned a problem with the word "should" to me recently. I don't understand why people say I "should" not say "should". Is there a reason for the aversion to that word?

      3 - You mentioned previously that I was making vague accusations. I actually wasn't making accusations at all, so perhaps that was why the vagueness made you uneasy? Just a thought.

      4 - And lastly, by morals, I was referring to the Ten Commandments, as in not killing, lying, stealing, etc. Those are pretty egregious actions that kills the relationship between fellow human beings. Those are moral issues. True, your VALUES and mine might differ, but most humans agree with a central set of morals even when their values differ. However, many people in my life in past relationships tried to make moral pronouncements and condemnations of me based upon things like the size of my recycling bin, whether or not I exclusively cloth diaper my babies, whether or not I feed my kids meat, or carbs, or dairy, or whatever, as well as if I wear pants vs. dresses, if I watch TV, etc. Casting off all of that imposed faulty thinking is a really new work in progress. And I only just stopped contact with my (possibly sociopathic) mother one week ago.
      Wow, I have replied too much here. Too much "I" and "me". I bore myself. Maybe I am a narc, I don't know. I honestly don't know how to tell if I am or not. It is a question that has been rolling around in my head for weeks now.
      Sincerely,
      Maree

      Delete
    3. Maree - If you decide to keep reading, I do have some posts I'd like to write soon - several of which might address the questions you've brought up here. Until then, I found this to be helpful:

      http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/search/label/How%20to%20Spot%20a%20Narcissist

      There are many other links that I have come across that seemed helpful containing "checklists" of the sorts of questions you might want to ask yourself. It may be helpful for you to google it and see what comes up. Best of luck in your search.

      Delete
  14. Just one more comment from me: I just realized that *I* was actually the person who "moralized" spaghetti and meatballs :)

    So, Maree: I don't think parents who prepare spaghetti for their children are bad parents. We occasionally eat spaghetti in my home and I don't think it makes us good OR bad parents. What I've been able to do, only recently, is stop taking people's thoughts and opinions as personal attacks on my basic value as a human being (our narcissistic parents actually did this; other people generally don't).

    It really doesn't matter if strangers on the internet might or might not think you're a bad parent because of spaghetti. Our parents obsessed over how others saw their parenting instead of focusing on loving us - THAT's what made them bad parents.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Jonsi and PA, this is Maree again.
      I have been giving this a lot of thought this morning and I realized another piece of the puzzle. My son has had some weight issues that his pediatrician suspects might be Sensory Processing Disorder (maybe, we will see). This means he will choose to starve himself rather than eat anything that is not appealing to his limited palate. He will projectile vomit if asked to eat foods that disagree with his palate. He was actually losing weight for a while and we were terrified. He just wouldn't eat anything and no one could help us. Then our pediatrician said to let go of all the rules. Offer any fattening, tempting foods we could think of, as well as bulk up his milk with instant breakfast powders. Thank God it worked. He started gaining weight and growing again. He is still very very skinny, and still struggles with vomiting and starving himself.
      My daughters are both healthy eaters, though, and will eat until fullness and go to play. Very healthy and active.
      But I have zeroed in on the meals that my son eats the most of, and spaghetti and meatballs, or anything with tender meat and carbs like that, are devoured by him. So, when I try to lovingly care for my son and meet his needs, I must choose foods that other families might eschew. I don't know why that didn't occur to me yesterday, but something I read today reminded me of that challenge we face as a family. It has just become so much a part of the background of our lives this year that I am unconsciously tending to those needs without be aware that I am making decisions from that place.
      Also, with regard to your statement here, PA, about being the one "moralizing" about spaghetti and meatballs, well, I admit that I tried to respond directly to your point. You and I have had a much longer history of online communication, and I guess I had no thought that I might be misunderstood by others. I can tell that you understood me, thank you for that. But I hadn't yet figured out blogging etiquette and protocol (like how to respond to another commenter on someone else's blog) and so I messed up pretty bad.
      Anyway, thanks Jonsi for publishing my comments here. As I said, I am learning blogging etiquette, and I was under the impression that if I offended you (or any blogger) that it wasn't proper to continue reading or commenting on YOUR blog, unless given permission to remain. I had only been blogging and commenting for about a week or so. Obviously, I have decided not to continue blogging, but I haven't yet decided if reading and commenting is a bad idea for me yet.

      Delete
  15. Maree, I think the whole point of Jonsi's analysis of her NSIL's post about the dinner had NOTHING to do with "moralizing" the specific TYPE of food served and had everything to do with the fact that her NMIL attempts to fill the enormous void she created in her daughter's life (through her lack of unconditional love for her daughter) - with food. The point being food of any type is not a substitute for unconditional love. She wasn't implying you're a bad parent if you serve your family spaghetti & meatballs.
    ~DD

    ReplyDelete
  16. I'm not sure I agree about most people holding the same morals, but I think I understand what you are trying to say. I think you were oversensitive about what you'd been feeding your son, perhaps feeling guilty about his losing weight and about how your other family members have had to adjust. But that was not the point of the moral meatballs -- your reasons for feeding your child spaghetti are not the same as Jonsi's NMIL. If I were to guess, your fear of being a narcissist led to get defensive about a parallel that wasn't really a parallel. And honestly, even using some of your argument about morals -- there is a great deal of morality in how one cares for their children. One mother feeding her child spaghetti as not only a substitute for love but also as a hammer to destroy that child is immoral. Another mother feeding her highly picky eater what he needs to thrive is not.

    Another point that concerned me about your most recent comments is that you are taking things down because you think no one wants to hear about your troubles. I think the opposite is true (speaking for the ACoN crowd -- lol, hope no one minds). Speak. Let it out. Examine it. Be open to your experiences and feelings. Let others help you heal.

    As for the "shoulds", one of my favorite people said I shouldn't "should all over myself." Just something to consider. :)

    ReplyDelete