Thursday, June 14, 2012

Fuck It

I was keeping all this stuff private for the past few months, except to share it with a few of my nearest and dearest, but I've decided to air it all out for you guys. I didn't want DH's FOO to know what I was thinking about their shit, if they ever found my blog.

But you know what?

I do. I want them to know. I want them to know that no matter how many emails they send, no matter how many nasty birthday cards, no matter how often they wish me dead and gone, no matter how deep their denial or uncanny their ability to pretend that everything is perfect, no matter how long they keep their damn finger in the pie, I will never give up the fight. I will protect myself and my loved ones the best I know how for as long as I can. I will keep my children safe from their grasping claws. I am not afraid of them.

And if they never find my blog, then I want the world to know these things. I want to expose them for what they really are.

Sit back, Dear Readers, I'm going to be throwing a lot of shit your way from happenings that have occurred over the past few months. It's quite the shit storm of nonsense and nastiness.

The following is a “behind the scenes” look at everything that has gone on since DH and I decided to stop writing about his FOO’s recent manipulation tactics. We made that decision right before the holidays because we figured they’d be most likely to strike at that point in time. Herein, you’ll see a couple of emails I sent to my good friend Upsi, as well as emails from DH’s FOO and my descriptions of the goings-on these past few months. [Note – the reason why I’ve chosen to include my emails to Upsi is because, in them, I explained some of the current events – like how EFIL and L and NMIL chose to treat our childrens’ birthdays and the end-of-the-year holidays].
I’d say “Happy Reading!” but we all know that this stuff ain’t happy. Anyway, without further ado:
November 3, 2011
Sent from: Jonsi
Sent to: Upsi
So, EFIL and L sent DD a birthday card with a certificate for a savings bond. They wrote: happy second birthday DD, love Grandpa EFIL and Grandma L.
A bit of history about the savings bond thing: they have been giving our children savings bonds since they were born. DD got one when she was born, one for her first birthday, one for last Christmas, and one now for her second birthday. DS also got one when he was born, for his first Christmas and we're assuming they'll purchase one for his first birthday, which is coming up in December. Here's the thing about the savings bonds: For one thing, as we know, giving cash gifts is the easiest (and most thoughtless) gift to give a child - it shows no creativity or thoughtfulness on their parts. And secondly, and perhaps more importantly, if these people knew anything about us, and had LISTENED TO OUR REQUESTS about gift-giving, they would know that savings bonds are NOT what we wanted for our children.

When the babies were born, we asked that, if they really wanted to give a gift (and no gifts were expected) that it would be most helpful if they gave us cash to put in the kid's savings accounts. When DD was born, we very specifically asked that any gift given be cash that we could put towards her cord-blood banking, which was very expensive. The only people who did that were my parents and my aunt - no one from DH's family complied with that wish, or really even acknowledged the request.

I've already toyed with the idea of cashing the savings bonds ASAP and just taking whatever money I can get and putting it in their savings accounts. I asked my Aunt what exactly the point was of doing savings bonds and her answer was that, "Basically it forces the parents to save the money in the hopes that the kids will get it when they're grown." And the phrase that stuck with me was "it forces the parents..." I very highly doubt that EFIL and L sat there and thought all this out...but the point is that they can't even comply with a simple wish to send our children cash, if they're going to gift them with money...and furthermore, it just shows they continue to see us and our children as obligations instead of human beings to love. The bottom line is that they don't know us, they don't know our children, and they never will. How sad.

Now, NMIL played her cards as well. Once again, she sent flowers. The card attached read: Happy second birthday DD! Love, SIL and Gram/NMIL.

Like in
my dream, she did the thing that was unavoidable, un-ignorable. I could have thrown a card out, or read it and trashed it, or chosen to put it aside until much later. She, naturally, sent the (useless, for a two year old) gift that could not be ignored...the sheer size of the flowers makes it unavoidable. It's also a lot harder to refuse flowers because you don't really know who they are from until you get them and look at the card. We pretty much knew it was from her, given that I don't know anyone else who's stupid enough to send a two-year-old flowers and that she did it last year, but there was still the chance it was someone else who sent them.

And again, DH and I were struck by the ridiculousness of it - like she REALLY thinks her flowers are going to impress anyone, and that it's going to change anyone's mind about what we're doing. I told DH that it's sad because she's created her own lose/lose situation. If she ignored DD's birthday, that would be bad. And when she chooses to acknowledge it, she loses too because she does it in the most inappropriate way.

And sorry, but someone who sent flowers to my daughter but ignored my birthday entirely (and most likely will do it again this coming year as well) is doing nothing but continuing to play her games. In the post where I talked about how she ignored my birthday,
Judy (Ladyhawkhollow) made the suggestion that perhaps NMIL really forgot my birthday because it just wasn't important enough to her to remember. But I believe, as I've always believed, that that is not the case. Every punch she throws is well-planned. She knows all the important dates, I guarantee she's HYPER-aware of them all. She just isn't ready to let go of the control she had all those years over DH- he was too good a supply for her narcissistic needs for her to give up that easily.

I told DH that she WILL stop sending us this crap, probably sooner rather than later, because it will not elicit the response she's looking for.

An interesting note - we got a call on our house phone from EFIL last night. We didn't pick up and I've already turned our answering machine off, so it felt really empowering being able to stand there as the phone rang, knowing that we wouldn't have to listen to some crap message from DH's dad or step-mom.  So we just let the phone ring. And then ten minutes later, they called again from L's cellphone. And again, I just felt like, "HA!" Beat that, suckas.
We don't have to listen to your bullshit.

December 17, 2011
From: Jonsi
To: Upsi

DS's birthday is tomorrow. We haven't heard from EFIL and L yet (for DD's birthday, they sent the card with a savings bond a couple days before)...although EFIL did call our house phone last night. He couldn't leave a message because we have our answering machine turned off and I actually don't think he was calling for DS's b-day anyway...I think he was calling because his Christmas party is today and we so obviously didn't rsvp and have been completely ignoring him and their lame Christmas party invitation. Anyway, if I had to guess, I'd say EFIL and L have NO IDEA what day DS's birthday is...they don't care about it. I really think that's what's happening with them, they just don't know, and if they’re even aware of it at all (they might not even realize it's this month) they'll just guess and send out their stupid birthday card sometime around the date they think it might be.

And we literally just got a delivery from the same flower place that NMIL sent flowers from for DD's birthday: A balloon, a small stuffed animal, and a totally for-show wooden fire truck that is NOT age appropriate. The whole thing just stinks of her narcissism - she doesn't know our kids and will never know them, so this is the best she can do and I personally think she'll give up soon.

The cool thing is that DS and DD were napping when her little package of narcissism arrived, so I totally yoinked the balloon and am going to repurpose it for his birthday party tomorrow. I'm glad they were napping, so I didn't have to worry that they'd even see the nonsense.

Same old, same old. I figured she'd send something today...tomorrow is Sunday and most places don't do deliveries and she'd never wait until the day after because she's so obviously set on destroying things for everyone (not that it worked. DH and I just went about our business. It's so funny because her antics are so not accomplishing what she wants.)

December 20, 2011
From: Jonsi
To: Upsi

EFIL and L sent three cards (they came the day after DS's birthday) - one for each of them for Christmas, and one for DS's birthday. The funny thing is that L wrote "Merry 2nd Christmas, DD!" (It's her third) and "Merry 1st (2nd written over it) Christmas DS!" Each card (including DS's birthday card) had $50 savings bonds in them (which means she spent $25 on each of them for birthdays and Christmas). So, that's it. I'm assuming that's all they'll do to acknowledge our children for Christmas and we all know it's only out of obligation that they even did that - they TOTALLY think we're the bad guys and that they are the bigger people. Bah! Whatever. They haven't changed in the slightest.

Nothing from NMIL yet for Christmas - no cards or packages. No idea if she'll send anything, and maybe (hopefully?) she's so offended that we didn't respond to her crummy gifts for the kids that she just won't send anything and she will cease and desist. She's bound to stop at some point because she simply won't want to put in the "effort" to manipulate DH.

**Note: NMIL never sent us anything for Christmas, or acknowledged our children in any way. No surprise, there.
From: NMIL (sent from: yet another work email address DH and I had never seen before)
Date: Tues, January 3, 2012 at 2:01 PM
Subject: Lots of changes…wanted to let you know…
To: DH (work email); DH (extinct personal email); Jonsi (extinct personal email)

Hi Jonsi and DH –
I won’t bother with too many niceties – not even sure if you will read this.  I hope you all are well and had great holidays.  I am sure DD and DS are so big – I still hope to see you all someday.

The house in [Town she is currently living in] is up for sale and so is [house her company owns - the same she tried to rent to us in 2009].  We will probably move back to [DH's hometown] when the house is sold. [NMIL's boyfriend of 3 years] and I are no longer together, and I also left [company she owned] and just started here at [company name] (where I used to work when you were little DH) in [DH's hometown].  SIL still waiting to hear from a few colleges, but she got into her first choice, [College X] in [Town name].


My initial thoughts:
1. This is the first time she's ever willingly sent an email to me (not that that is indication of her changing, this is just her newest tactic. I'm happy to know that she'll get an email back saying that her email was undeliverable to both my email and DH's.)
2. This is a little bit more "real" as far as communication almost sounds like a real person's email. There is none of that fluff shit she usually adds in all of her emails to DH. Again, I don't take that as an indication of real effort or change on her part, I think it's just her newest tactic and when it fails to get a response, she'll stop.
3. I'm surprised it came after the holidays and not during or before. Could be a sign she'll be giving up with the  manipulations soon. (The holidays are too prime time for narcs not to use them to their full advantage, so it's interesting that she waited.)
4. I for one don't give a crap that she broke up with her boyfriend.
5. I also don't care where she moves to, or that she selling her house.
6. As always, the mention of his sister is a ploy. SIL is being used as a prop.

7. Additional note from Upsi: And what's wrong with niceties?  don't bother with them if they're fake, but the way she phrased it is really weird - like before she would bother with them but now you don't deserve them or whatever?

From: NMIL (sent from: latest work email address)
Date: Fri, January 27, 2012 at 3:12 PM
Subject: Would you and Jonsi and the kids like to use the timeshare this summer?
To: DH (work email)

Hi DH - hope you and the family are healthy and happy.  I would have CC'd Jonsi but I don't have an email address for her that works.

I wanted to offer the Ocean Club to you and Jonsi and DD and DS - we won't be there of course, but I thought you could enjoy it.  No strings attached.

SIL won an award for her artwork so we are going to [Town name] to see her art on exhibit - it was a High School scholastic competition - so that is pretty exciting considering she isn't even an art major. She is still waiting to hear from two schools.

House is on the market still so we are still in [Current place of residence].

Take care DH.



Upsi's thoughts, which nicely summed up most of my thoughts as well:
The email from his mom reads first as "do I have anything that you could possibly want?" then as a strange mix of answers to questions he's not asking.  The timeshare thing is missing the point.  Leave it to narcissists to unwaveringly attempt to solve relational problems with material goods, time after time, despite their WORTHLESSNESS in the field of human life in which they are being offered.  Is everything barter-able in her world?  Timeshare for love?  Is that some kind of peace offering?  Does she really think this could fix what has been broken?  Is that all she's ever willing to offer in the way of repentance?  If she could catch herself in the act of this need-to-be-of-value to her son, it might give her a glimpse into why he has no place for her in his life.  It's sad, really, because it's not an adult son's place to give his mother's life value by accepting her token gifts - strings or no strings.  She offers him the choice to either (a) accept her "gift" and give her some pleasure that she has something he wants, (b) reject her gift and become the ungrateful son, or (c) ignore her offering.  I'll take C any day of the week with options so limited.  As for the rest of the information she gives him, she doesn't seem to CARE that he's not asking after his sister or their house-for-sale - so it's really for her benefit in the end however you slice it.

A few additional notes from me:

- I just love the “I would have cc’d Jonsi” line (and of course I mean that sarcastically). To me, it reads “I would have [done what you’ve asked me to do so many times before even though I’ve chosen to ignore the rule that I was supposed to include Jonsi whenever I emailed you about important things] and cc’d Jonsi, [but she’s such a bitch that she changed her personal email address so that I could no longer contact her and now] I don’t have an email for her that works. [So it’s all her fault that I couldn’t email her too.]
- In her previous email, she indicated that she “didn’t even know if we were going to read her email.” Which is why she included the “point” of this email in the subject line. Normally, her subject lines are all oozing with mystery and drama that’s meant to suck you in out of sheer curiosity. In this case though, she wanted to make sure DH knew EXACTLY what the email was about…that way, she can be certain that, even if he’s thrown the email out without reading it, he knows what it’s about. She’s just ensuring that, no matter what, DH looks like the asshole. As Upsi pointed out, his only viable option was to completely ignore her ridiculous offer…and she’ll use that to paint him as the bad guy. Now, she feels she can officially walk around badmouthing him because she can claim that she made the offer, he knew about it, and he chose to ignore it. Oh, what a bad, bad son!
- For anyone who is wondering, I’ve been keeping track of her house online and it hasn’t been sold yet. It is actually on the market, which I looked into after seeing this email…I couldn’t come up with a viable reason why she’d lie about selling her house, but I also wouldn’t put it past her to lie about it either, if it meant she had something to gain. I’m waiting for the house to sell because I think it’s a safe bet that she’ll use that (or the purchasing of her new house) as a reason to contact DH again. And, another interesting note: I’ve found multiple pictures of her house-for-sale on the real estate website that it’s listed on – it inspired this post about how empty NMIL’s house was the one time we ever saw it in person. You know how, when expensive houses are for sale, people will “stage” the house so that it sells quicker? Well, when we saw her house in person, it looked just as “staged” as it did in those photos. In fact, there weren’t many differences at all, so far as I could tell. Her house-for-sale looks as empty and cold as it did when she was actively living in it. Creepy.
- I read somewhere recently that people often use first names (and repeat them at odd moments) when they are trying to bully someone – kind of like when you’re totally not on a first-name basis with someone, but they use your first name in conversation anyway (I mean, it comes across as demeaning sometimes, doesn’t it?) That’s how I read NMIL’s constant repetition of DH’s full name in some of these emails – there is just something slightly bullying about her use of his name.

January 29, 2012
The “Birthday Card” from EFIL and L

I got a “birthday”card from EFIL and L.

On the front is a picture of a very unhappy looking cat (a real cat, not a cartoon cat) that's wearing a clown wig and a ridiculous bow tie.

At the bottom of the front of the card, it reads "A Birthday Warning..."

The inside reads, "There's always gonna be someone at the party with a camera phone."

And L wrote, "Happy Birthday. EFIL + L"

The analysis:
- Obviously, it's a slap that my name isn't anywhere to be found, except for on the envelope. Now, here’s a case where using my name would have been appropriate – but it’s almost as though, by not addressing me directly, the intent was to hurt me. Like, I wasn’t even important enough for them to actually write my name out…
- The card itself is SO not a happy birthday card, it wouldn't be funny or nice even under a different circumstance. I mean, the poor cat on the front is obviously miserable, and the message of the card (without the added message from EFIL and L) is - you look like a fool and there will ALWAYS be people around taking "pictures" of your terrible or embarrassing'll always be on display...etc. And I mean, what the hell kind of birthday card is that and who the fuck would think it was a nice card to send someone, right? I know, it's not a birthday card, it's a fuck you card. Clearly.
- Okay, then there is the added message from these fucktards - they know all about how serious I take the picture thing, and now they are admitting that they know it. I already know that they've discussed it amongst themselves, they've posted whatever they've got all over the internet out of spite, and they've shared their entire stash with NMIL, since "Jonsi is so evil that she won't even share her photos with her children's grandparents!!! Oh, poor, poor NMIL!" It's totally fucked up. This card must have come from the section of Hallmark for people who don't get along with their family members - the dysfunctional family section."
- If I'm supposed to be the unhappy clown cat on the front, then they seem to be implying that they are the “people who are always there to take my picture” and if not them, then SOMEONE is out there taking our pictures, right?
- And then the whole, "A birthday warning" thing? Fucking creepy. My very first thought when I opened the card was, "So, have they been taking pictures of us against our knowledge? Have they sent someone here to take pictures of us, or our house?"
- These people have spent more time thinking up ways to be nasty to me, then they EVER spent trying to get to know me or do kind things. And this, coming from these "pious, loving, forgiving, wonderful, the light shines out our asses" people. They are so willing to shove down our throats how loving and perfect and forgiving they are...but oh my god, their actions speak so much louder than their bullshit words. I know why they hate all over me, I know why they blame me, but seriously what the hell is the point of being nasty? What will it accomplish?
- This is SO NOT about them being the “bigger people” anymore - that isn't even what they are trying to show us. No, now they just want us to know how much they hate me. I didn't get the feeling that this was a, "Oh, see of course we love your wife, DH" thing - they're beyond that now...the truth comes out (well, still in a round-about way, but it's there none-the-less). I mean if they were still focused on faking it, they'd have sent some sappy shitty card, like they did to our kids for the holidays. So, no this is not about them sending the message that they like me or have accepted me, it's the total opposite. This is the "I hate you" card. This is the "Look what you've done, you bitch!" card.
- The art of self-reflection is so totally lost on these people.
- This was the nasty, spear-headed birthday card, proof that their final blows will be vicious.
- If they only spent five minutes picking out this card, that was five more minutes they spent on being unnecessarily cruel. What I would love to know is…how the fuck do they lay their heads down at night and go to sleep, after having done such awful things? They have spent more time being nasty then they did on being productive, being understanding, being caring or loving. They NEVER spent even that much time thinking of ways to be kind to me.
- It's all a game to them - they don't care about DH- this card was even further proof of that (like we needed that). I personally think that L was the driving force behind it - she picked it out, she wrote it in, she addressed the envelope and sent it. EFIL might not even know a thing about it - after all, they don't communicate with each other about anything anyway. But I see him being just as guilty. He's guilty for not ever getting to know me. He's guilty for being disrespectful. He's guilty for, as DH pointed out in his letter to him, not caring enough to even spell my name right. He's guilty for not thinking about anyone but himself. He's guilty for doing nothing to stop this...he's guilty of so many things. And L is nothing but a manipulative meddling cunt.
- And still, I have some satisfaction...and I owe quite a bit of it to DH, who was willing to cut these people off way sooner than other's in his position have been. They started a game I didn't want to play. They started this fucked up game where no one but them knows the rules. I had no intention of playing. I would have been happy "sharing" their precious "DH's childhood nickname." This was never about me being unwilling to share him, or wanting to control him, or wanting to destroy his relationship with his FOO (nah, they did that a long time before I ever came along). And you know what? I won. I beat them at their own game. I feel satisfied in knowing, that's a huge reason why they hate me so much. They hate me because I won THEIR game. I've got what they want. I've got DH, ALL TO MYSELF, and they can't have him. 

Upsi’s thoughts: Lord have mercy.  My first reaction paraphrases their card this way: you can't control everything, Jonsi.  A jab at this phantom villain they've constructed you into, who would have a lock-box for all cameras and cell phones at the door to prevent any and all photography!  It's like they need you to be the Picture-Nazi because that's the only way they know how to relate: power and control.  Not only is it a painfully un-funny joke at your expense, it calls you unreasonable in its subtext, which is NOT THE GODDAMN POINT!  The point is respect, not control - but these fine points belong to an entirely different constellation of relational principles, one which they show no interest in understanding.  Happy Fucking Birthday, indeed! 

From: EFIL
Date: Thu, February 9, 2012 at 2:28 PM
Subject: Life
To: DH (Work email)

It's truly a real shame and a tragedy DH that for what ever reason that you conjured up, or should I say you and [Jonsi's name, intentionally spelled wrong], and I apologize for any misspelling, to take away, and in some cases make enemies of, your self and your new family from your side of family. You have no good reason to act this way DH. Nobody beat you like my dad did to me and would draw blood till I couldn't sit for taking old gum and chewing it Or kneel on rice for talking back till I couldn't kneel any more. This was all by the age of 9.  And then at 10 it made it all up to us kids by leaving us with no dad at all for the rest of my life. If that's not enough for you. Wait till u hear L's story.  Hers makes mine look like a love story.  So your excuses DH are lame at best. Grow up and open your eyes and your heart to really see....

We all love you so much.


[My notes concerning the above email]:
-No wonder DH's dad thinks his children OWE him - he's passed along HIS debts to his own child.
-This is where DH learned to hold it all in - if we don't talk about it, it goes away mentality
-I'm not surprised that his father was abused, it was something I considered. It does explain why his dad may have struggled with drugs/alcohol abuse, it helps explain why he picked out NMIL in the scheme of things, and it also goes further to explain why he's buried his head in his version of Christianity as a panacea for the hurts he suffered and never got over.
-These people are incredibly childish and will never grow up.
-Whatever sympathy I might have for the child in DH's dad is undermined by my disgust in him for not being a strong enough person to overcome his own legacy and prevent from passing it on to his offspring
-These people are terrified of change
-I wonder if L will be passing along her sob story too...the way his dad said, "Wait til you hear L's story.” It made me think she'll be sending a follow up of the abuses she suffered.
-They are getting nasty and desperate and don't realize that what they are doing by writing something like this is the antithesis of love - it is abusive and nasty and could be seen as a form of stalking/harassment
-From this email, we can see the obvious accusation, "You've made this all up" and worse, "You and YOUR WIFE made this all up. Get over it asshole."
-His father has declared that we are all enemies now. Well, actually, he said that DH has made enemies of his mother and father and the rest of his family.
-There is not even one iota of possibility for them that they may have done anything wrong. They really think they are perfect!!!
-In a less dysfunctional system, his father's past never would have been a secret. His children would have been privy to the information about where he came from and what happened to him. There would have been openness and honesty to talk about the abuses he suffered. His father would also have done major work to overcome the atrocities he suffered as a child - all of which would have been made public knowledge to his son.
-He's still not truly being honest, he's just throwing out tidbits and scraps to DH in the hopes of getting him back (to abuse him further)
-I was right about the b-day card being evidence that their final blows will be outright nasty.-Working through EFIL’s awful writing - I got this - "It's truly a real shame and a tragedy...[to take yourself away from us]...and in some cases to make yourself and your wife and kids our enemies."
-EFIL's birthday was a couple days ago. The email L sent to DH last year was sent on exactly the same day: February 9th, 2011. No coincidence that his father's was sent a year to the day later. (It was sent yesterday, February 9, 2012) I would have thought to expect something if I had marked his birthday down on our calendar. This year, I opted not to write down the birthdays of DH's FOO, for obvious reasons. No doubt EFIL was feeling betrayed because DH didn't acknowledge his birthday.
From: NMIL
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 at 12:19 PM
Subject: FW: BHS Yearbook AD Proof
To: DH (Work Email)


Hope everyone in your family happy and healthy.  Time flies - attached is SIL's yearbook ad...she is so grown up! She has now decided on [college] as her first choice and is getting excited.

Would love to hear how everyone is doing at your house.

Take care.


attachment: yearbook "ad" showing pictures of SIL at various ages and this message from her parents: Congratulations SIL - We are so proud of you, Thank you for being the best daughter we could ask for. With all our love - mom and dad
Upsi's thoughts: Good lord that ad is definitely a dig!  the only way it could be worse is if SIL were gazing at herself in a mirror a la the classic narcissus myth!

DH's mother is a fucking cunt.  the depth of her willful ignorance is immeasurable.  she's playing games and hoping to wear him down.  she shows more commitment to her games than any other single thing in her fucking life.  her messages are more invalidating than anything else - she ignores everything real about him in hopes she can rope him back into her "world" - it's maddening.  and the worst part is she is being provocative - playing innocent and nice in hopes to get ANY kind of reaction - she would love it so fucking much if you told her to stop emailing.  oh what a martyr she could be then!
- she plays dumb pretty consistently, but we know she's not dumb.  just a complete asshole.  I'm so sorry she's still playing this angle, it's infuriating to have to sit on your hands.  because silence is the best way to respond - it gives her nothing.  but still, i'd like to punch her in the tit!

My additional thoughts:
- Sending this message that SIL is the "best daughter" gives the juxtaposition that DH is the "worst son."
-  She hopes that DH and I will not end up together, and is therefore attempting to keep her “finger in the pie.”
- She continues to play the “Look, I’m so nice” game.
- She is pretending everything is fine, acting as though nothing has happened, or that we haven’t been ignoring her for almost a year.
- She's playing the whole "good cop/bad cop" angle with DH's father. EFIL (what a dumbass) doesn't even know that's what's going on. He deserves it, really, for all his stakes in her game. But she's trying to play the whole, "I'm the nice one" angle. Nearly every time we've gotten contact from her, it's followed up by something nasty and vindictive from his father.
- "Time flies." According to NMIL, we're not "ignoring" her. Time is just flying by so quickly, we must not have noticed that it's been a whole year since we last talked with her, acknowledged her, or saw her! Yes, NMIL, CLEARLY that's what is going on here. We're just too busy to take note of the fact that we haven't contacted you in a while. We'll be sure to send our family updates asap! I don't know what happened there. Must have slipped our mind!

And finally, the most recent from NMIL:

From: NMIL [most recently used work email address]
Sent: Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:12 PM
Subject: NSIL is graduating June 13th - do you think you guys could make it?
To: DH (Work Email)

Hope all is well with you and your family. Would love to see everyone.


My thoughts:
- The body of her recent emails are always as empty as she is
- She continues to write the entire “point” of her email in the subject line, so as to ensure that DH can’t miss it. Even if his intention is to delete it, then he’ll still see exactly what she was hoping to communicate
- Amazing – the continued lack of detail and willful ignorance about the reality of the situation. This email, as all previous ones, is so incredibly inappropriate for the current circumstances.
- She continues to communicate as though NOTHING has happened. How anyone could ignore the atomic bomb that is her tumultuous past with her son and daughter-in-law, I’ll never know.


  1. Kick these whack jobs out of your heads! It'll leave more space for people who love and support you.

    Follow Rev. Renee rules for NC found at:

    1. Mulderfan - YES! I've posted the rules of NC before on my blog. We have not responded to NMIL or EFIL in any way, shape, or form. We have "controlled" all the "controllables" so to speak, in that we've cut off communication where ever it was possible to do so (changing email addresses, phone numbers, etc).

      I love Rev. Renee, she rocks. And I'll be doing a re-post of that particular post soon. Thanks for reminding me about it!!

    2. PS. I think part of me felt it necessary to "purge" myself of all of this shit by putting it here, for all to see. I'm stripping myself of the stress of the situation by leaving it here, where it can stay and be seen by so many others.

    3. I'll admit to using my blog the same way. Once I spew it, I'm done with it!

      Forgot to mention, I LOVE the title!

    4. [[Mulderfan]] The title is definitely the pièce de résistance of the whole thing, sums it all up quite nicely. :o)

      I've been dying to share it all with everyone. It feels good to expose their lies and just be done with it.

  2. "Nobody beat you like my dad did to me" - Oooooooooh that's the kind of attitude that pisses me off! Look, I didn't hit you so ANYTHING ELSE I ever did to you is OKAY! You've got nothing to complain about! I see this all the time and run into it all the time, and I can't stand it!

    People create this false dichotomy, this illusionary distinction, between physical abuse and non-physical abuses. And it's so invalidating, demeaning, and patently FALSE. I have said before and I will say it again: the brain does not distinguish between physical pain and emotional pain. The same areas of the brain react to both.

    1. "I have said before and I will say it again: the brain does not distinguish between physical pain and emotional pain. The same areas of the brain react to both."

      Yes. I completely agree.

      When I was dating my psycho dickhead ex-boyfriend, I believe I suffered from battered woman syndrome, and the guy never outright punched, kicked, or slapped me. I think he was wearing me down, waiting for the time when I was so broken that he could haul off and punch me in the face and I wouldn't leave him. He found little ways to hurt me physically - pinching, pushing, one time he threw me on the bed.

      It was, amazingly enough, the emotional abuse that "hurt" the most. The fact that I felt like such a piece of shit - so degraded and worthless.

    2. Interesting that I've also been struggling with how much the emotional abuse is so much worse. Partly because it is so deniable. It's so under the radar. Your boyfriend (or parent) hits you, well, that's abuse. Leave the asshole! But, they just played with your mind? Well, are you sure? Did they mean it like that? It's all shades of gray. But they are wearing you down subtly, making you feel invisible and worthless. I'm having a hard time, even in my own story, believing the abuse was as bad as it was.
      And the justification that "well, it could've been worse" is such a load of crap it makes me want to scream.

  3. Oh you guys.....I NEVER give the details of my experiences post NC because it's not my Blog or my place. It'd take forever. I'm also NOT "PC" and am very HARDCORE NC. Most importantly if I ever put it out there my biggest fear is that it will so terrorize others they'll NEVER go NC.
    jonsi, DH, That "family" is using the same damn playbook as my MNPsychobitch. I read your birthday card with the cat and froze in recognition: Please expect in addition to the Smear campaign, you're being stalked. Believe it. DH, PLEASE change your email at work or get a filter somehow. It's a nasty, vicious, malicious game they're playing-no more, no less. The contents of the various emails are absolutely consistent with the avalanches of snail mail I got from Psychobitch no matter how frequently I moved (and it was several times in my younger years.) The pulling out-the-family-skeletons: Check. (Pseudo-excuses for inexcusable behavior.) Comparison to another sibling-Check. Title Line To Ensure Attention: Check (reference to a HS classmate who's wife suddenly died, kind of like my DH-BUT NO name of the guy; I graduated HS with several hundred kids about 27 yrs. before.) Nasty Shit Written All Over The Outside Of The Snail-Mail Envelopes So The Rural Postal Person Can Read ALL About ME: Check (on-going and continuous for 18 yrs. post NC). Vicious Ad In The Announcement Section Of Local Rural Newspaper Where I Live and Held A Prominent Position: Check. Letters from A Family Organization that offers a FREE SERVICE to locate family members torn apart by the Holocaust: Check-and came to my EXACT address. The poor unfortunate who signed those letters got blasted by phone one day when I arrived home from work and found this shit in my mailbox AGAIN. I could go on and on. But these are a few of my bona-fides.
    Please EXPECT these mo-fos to show up at your door-keep your storm doors locked and have a plan which includes instant call to law enforcement and let 'em know you're doing it. It's gonna get worse: It's a sick, sadistic game. Don't think for a second they give a shit about you-they DON'T. I know that hurts. But it's truth. And if they can destroy your marriage..............I'm telling you, this is EXACTLY THE GOAL. I lived this. I know this. If you think they're "above" ANY tactics or what they're doing isn't targeted, intended and planned, you're still in la-la land and there's not a damn thing I can tell you. Lucky for you all there are now Stalking Laws. And Aggravated Harassment Charges. And Cease and Desist Orders.
    Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

    1. TW - Please, feel free to share ANY details that you need to, or that you feel comfortable sharing (in private or on my blog) I'm well aware of the need to share it all, to get it out there.

      But I know your one kick-ass lady, no matter what you choose to talk about with us or keep private.

      Gosh, the way I see it, even with the torments that continue after NC, it's still a thousand times better to be NC than to put up with their bullshit. I feel like being NC at least appeals to my inner fighter - sticking around and just "dealing" with their shit, or "putting up with it" just doesn't work. I'd rather fight it and fight it and fight it some more, than live with their complete and utter fucking BULLSHIT on a daily basis.

    2. Sigh..."That "family" is using the same damn playbook as my MNPsychobitch."

      I know a lot about your resident MNPsychobitch, and it's maddening that mine is so similar to yours. Damn. Will we ever catch a break?

  4. I'm so glad that my mother finds it more convenient to pretend I don't exist except as the reason for everything she doesnt like about her life. My parents did try the "obscure dire medical emergency" emails that made me panic and contact them, but that was when I was still trying to have a relationship. Since I've quietly yanked myself out of the frying pan, I just get the sporadic and generic email that feels more like them going through the motions do they can tell others that they send me well wishes but I'm such a bitch for not reciprocating or responding.

    Anyway, I decided that if my parents run into my blog, so be it. There are enough pieces of info that they could find it via google (The Killing Face post is a dead giveaway), but I suspect my mother will avoid seeking me out because it would confront her with the greatest lie of all: she doesn't let outsiders know anything about her kids being less than perfect and superior regardless of what she tell us in the privacy of home. To admit my blog is about her would defile that carade.

    1. I think what really kills me about NMIL's continued and relentless email nonsense is the idea she presents that everything is just peachy keen, la la la, time-just-fucking-flies bullshit. She says she can't wait to see "us," and we all know that's not true - she just wants her Precious back and for Jonsi to disappear into the woodwork, so she's keeping her finger in the pie, in the hopes that we don't make it, by playing the "see you guys soon!" card.

      I'm glad that you aren't deeply bothered by your family's sporadic and generic emails - I think you're right that they're just using them to keep up the image that they are the good ones, and YOUR just the crazy bitch.

      Keep sippin' on that one fuckers, it's really getting you far in life.

    2. My NPs like to play "the pretend game" and I'm beginning to think if they didn't, their whole damn world would fall apart because, they'd have to face what a pair of complete fuck-ups they are.

    3. What it comes down to is that, on the most basic level, they are the most cowardly people out there. They are small people - everything about them is small, including their courage. And weak people can't face the truth, especially about themselves.

    4. My NM also plays the pretend game (as do the in-laws). I always wondered how in the hell the do that. How do you just 'go on'? And it is annoying as hell. Plus, it's degrading. To be treated as if something that deeply wounded you, doesn't even make their radar.
      Funny you say that about the "seeing us" crap. NMIL plays that game too. But it's always been so clear that if I didn't show up, that'd be perfectly fine. In fact, on many occasion, I haven't shown up and it's always the "best time". Fuckers. So, the solution is just for me to not go? Husband suggested this for awhile. If it's so bad, why don't you just let me and family hang out by ourselves. And it seemed like such a cop out. Ok, well, I'll just crawl in a hole, and no one will deal with the real issue, and every thing will be hunky dory...for NMIL. She can smile that little smile that I can't stand, reveling in all her glory as her family dances around her and no one will miss me at all. Doesn't anyone think that the kids might notice that 'mom' is suspiciously absent? Doesn't it send them the message that if they don't somehow fall in line, they too will be cast aside? This was a hard one for husband to wrap his mind around. He REALLY thought he was making the best compromise. But he never realized that with that compromise she won (and it isn't a battle to me) but she got everything SHE wanted, and I was the sacrifice. No one wants to be the outcast.

  5. My mother is definitely a coward. I never liked the lion on the wizard of oz. I thought he was a jerk.

    1. Interesting...this idea of cowards. I'll have to watch the wizard of oz again (or read the books) and look at the lion with a different set of eyes.

      I have to agree with you: I despise cowards and all their acts of cowardice. Makes one wonder why some people seem born to be brave and others...not so much.

    2. He annoyed me too. His whining and shaking grated on my nerves.

  6. YES, YES, a thousand times YES to NC whatever the "cost."
    Here's a "Coward" story: I had been recruited into a position through their Outstanding Scholar Program with an Agency before I finished undergrad. I was very surprised actually and DH with whom I had a long-distance relationship for the last 2 yrs. of undergrad encouraged me to take the position despite more inherent long distance stuff and inherent danger. "We'll work it out. I think it's a great opportunity for you, I know you can take care of yourself and you'll get more training anyway so go for it." And I did and just loved it. (It wasn't something I could EVER have imagined myself doing.)
    I moved SEVERAL times after graduation to temporary places while DH held down the real "Home front." I worked odd hours, outside the country, had a high security clearance, non-traditional occupation and that's all I can say about this position and Agency. My performance evaluations were ALWAYS "Excellent."
    I had an opportunity to transfer closer to home and since there were so few females, anytime one of us was transferring we'd find a way for as many of us as possible to get together and have lunch in a City close to the transferee's 'temporary' home. On the morning of my luncheon as I got out of the shower I heard a knock at the door which was...odd. I threw on a bathrobe, hair in a towel and opened the door to find Psychobitch standing there: I had been total NC for 3+yrs., multiple moves etc. and here she was, already trying to get in the storm door which was locked. I told her, "You are both un-invited and un-welcomed-GET OUT OF HERE NOW." (My professional training kicked in immediately.) I slammed the door on her and she proceeded to get a coin out of her purse and go around my place scratching the coin on all the windows, screaming, sobbing and yelling at 10:30AM in my quiet, suburban neighborhood where I knew no one. (I wasn't there frequently enough to do much but crash and burn before driving home to DH.) I opened the curtain and yelled to her, "I'm calling the police NOW" and she saw me with the phone dialing. As I was dialing, she ran to her car and took off. By the time the cops arrived shortly after they searched all over for her but couldn't find her. I ABSOLUTELY would have had her arrested but she must have hit the interstate pronto.
    This speaks to consciousness of guilt and a nefarious agenda. Her chicken-shit behavior gave away her knowledge she had NO business being where she was. Her PI's had tracked me down-but didn't YET have my unlisted phone number. She DID, however find out where I was employed, called the new District Director whom I had not yet met repeatedly which was unknown to me at the time. She destroyed my career. That's a story for another time.
    Do not put ANYTHING past these "parents." EVER. My MNPsychobitch was very affluent and used her financial resources repeatedly to target me. I'm sorry to say this and I'm NOT exaggerating: Money can purchase ANY "service."
    I understand how hurtful it must feel for the folks who have terminated a relationship with an abusive parent and never hear from the 'parent' after. Honestly, if Psychobitch had simply left me in peace I can absolutely assure you, I would have revisited that decision somewhere down the road. Her behavior post NC reinforced my decision and unmasked her even more spectacularly than I ever could have imagined. After DH's death, things got so bad I brought all of my documentary evidence for a Risk Analysis by a well-respected firm-I had now been total NC for at least 14 yrs. I did not wish to color their perspective so I gave very little information besides the documents-letters, ads she placed in the local papers etc. At my first appointment post-eval, the first question they asked was, "What are you doing to ensure your personal safety?" I wasn't surprised.

    1. "This speaks to consciousness of guilt and a nefarious agenda."

      TW, you're right when you say that your tales are horrifyingly, nightmarishly scary...but I see the value in sharing them here. I think we have to really get it into our heads that cowards will resort to any tactics, no matter how down-and-dirty, to get what they want and what they think they deserve.

      I am always prepared for the worst when it comes to these chicken-shits. I've seen the darkness and I know it's ugly.

    2. My NGC brother was attacking me daily for months via emails to my cousin. At 1st, my cousin did not share their content but then decided I needed to see them.

      Apparently, when I refused to continue my role as "rescuer/doormat" and only allowed my NPs to contact me by snail mail, the NGC found the burden of responsibility too much to bear. His main problem, was my refusal to take "responsibility" for my NPs as a "daughter" should. Not sure what happens when narcs only have male offspring!

      When I did make a "controlled" visit to my parents and made sure my emergency contact information was up-to-date with the old folks home where they live, I FOOLISHLY, sought to defuse things by letting the NGC know because, apparently, the stress of finally stepping up to the plate was causing him to have life-threatening seizures.

      Since the NGC lives 5 minutes away from the NPs and I live an hour away the home still has him as primary contact. The staff don't know that he refused to accept the burden of holding the NPs Powers of Attorney for both financial and health matters. He also wanted no part in being joint executor of their wills because his idea of dealing with an emergency is to simply not deal with it.

      Anyway, the point I'm making is, this all caused the NGC to go ape shit and escalate his nasty rhetoric via my cousin. I shut down the forwarding and things got so out of control that my cousin FINALLY went NC with the NGC.

      This all scared the hell out of my DD, my cousin's wife and his friends. They all feel, that like TW's psycho NM, the NGC will not be denied! Even though he doesn't own a car and is medically unfit to rent one, my DD and cousin live in fear of this doped up, peace-loving hippie, showing up on our respective door steps and doing God-knows-what.

      I think a guy who has a panic attack over a hang-nail and IMO is a complete coward is highly unlikely to suddenly grow balls at age 58. Besides, he recemntly broke my heart, by telling me he wanted no further contact. Boo-fucking-hoo...crying a river as I type!

      And TW, my wonderful NFOO also pulled out all the stops after my DH died but at least it got me started on my journey toward freedom. Makes me sick to realize all these cowardly fucks think alike: "Oh goody, her DH died. Let's kick the shit outta her while she's down!"

    3. In our case, I'm betting they're hoping for either my death, or our divorce. Actually, I don't think my death would actually be good enough for them, because they wouldn't be as sure of themselves in whether or not they'd get DH back. (If we divorced, I think they'd try to swarm him like flies to shit, thinking he'd be all for going back). If either of those things happened, I think they'd be thinking they same thing that your NPs did, Mulderfan. Something like, "Oh good she's dead/gone. Let's celebrate by kicking the shit out of DH."

      Not to be morbid, but I've also wondered what they'd do if something happened to DH.
      Not that they'd ever find out from me, if that were the case.

    4. If anything did happen to your DH I would bet they'd be in court the next day going after your kids.

      At the other extreme, one of my FB friends has N-inlaws who now deny the paternity of her children and ignore them.

      In a weird way, considering we're speculating on a loved one's death, at least you and DH would have a pretty good idea of what's coming and some great support from your FOO. Hard to know 100% how you would handle things when your that vulnerable but, for me, it didn't help that my NFOO were pretty much the only family DD and I had at that time. I've since made a real effort to develop and nurture a support system.

    5. I think my in-laws would be the ones to do this: deny the paternity of our children and ignore them. They've never had anything to gain when it came to me, and I think they know I'd fight too damn hard to keep my babies safe.

      Believe me, if that was a fight they picked, they wouldn't even win it over my dead body.

  7. Jonsi, your NMIL seems to be acting similar (engineering similar) situations to what my NMIL did shortly after we moved over a thousand miles away and then went NC. Regarding inappropriate invitations - WTF is up with those?! I'm sure it's got to be some sort of a combination of mind-fucking along with trying to maintain appearances of being the good guy to outsiders. My NMIL invited DH (and only DH) to come back to her state for a milestone party event. This was after a very long strained period when DH had tried to enforce boundaries, then pulled away when it didn't work, then literally moved away. He had not yet given her an address to reach us. Her event was only a few months after our big move. She told him she'd pay his way there, and he could stay with them. On top of that, she sent this invitation via mail to the address at his new job - an address he had not given her. He hadn't even given her the name of his new company. I couldn't believe she had the gall to do it. This event prompted DH to tell her, NC. After that, she continued to use every avenue she could to reach us (any and every other relative of DH, mild acquaintances, phone, e-mail, facebook, snail mail, DH's work address)until we had shut down any way she had to communicate with us. Then, as you know, they hired multiple PI's to find us (we've moved a lot) so they could ambush DH at work. I have no doubt your NMIL will continue her tactics, will become frustrated when they don't work, and will take it to the next level with stalking, PIs, etc. Please take care! I'm sure you know what sort of BS she will pull next if you think about what cards she thinks she holds.

    Wow, TW! I have chills reading about your horrifying, stalking MNPsychobitch. Thank you for sharing. You've made it through some absolutely crazy things. It makes me feel like there is hope. Have you been able to get any protection legally like a restraining order? My DH and I have just recently dealt with the first instance of PI's/ambushes by his NParents. They ambushed DH at his workplace. The next day they showed up multiple times at our house (an unlisted address.) We called the police when we heard from our neighbor they were parked outside waiting for us to come home. The cop told them to leave. That felt good! However, I know it isn't over. I'm sure it won't be over for a very long time, and it feels insurmountable to me at times. -J

  8. If you want me to continue this story, I will later. But just a couple of thoughts/Lessons Learned re: Initiating NC:
    -You have had a lifetime of experience with these "Parents." You KNOW what you KNOW. Believe yourself. If you haven't yet tried LC, MC etc. please try these options first. NC IS a metaphorical "death." Be prepared to treat it as such. This is an ABSOLUTE BOUNDARY. It's not gonna be comfortable to begin with but no new way of doing or being in this world ever is. Give yourself a chance to grieve before you initiate NC. Anticipatory grieving doesn't mean you're "done" with your grief work but rather you have a handle on your emotions and are prepared to move forward.
    -Get a VERY unlisted #, email, stay OFF any Social Networking sites, make sure your kid's school(s) has a copy of your letter on file. If the jerks show up on school property, the school officials are responsible for escorting them off/handling the situation.
    -Put any correspondence that has any personal info/account #s on it etc. through a shredder if you don't do that already.
    -If possible, engage an attorney to write the letter for you-it really is IMO the best option. If you can't-
    -Put it in WRITING. Short and sweet-ex:" I do not wish to have any further contact with you through ANY means. Do not contact me, my immediate family, neighbors, friends, employers" etc. Address the "Parent(s)" by their first names. Sign off with your full name.
    -Have it notarized and notarize a few copies. Keep one with you in your wallet at all times.
    -Give copies of the letter and return receipt to all local law enforcement so they can have a "Heads Up" and keep it on file. You are now covering that end with a paper trail.
    -Most of us can't stand public "scenes." The assholes depend on our reluctance and WILL violate the request VERY publicly. Call Law Enforcement IMMEDIATELY, FIRST time, EVERY time. I know it's embarrassing to have a Law Enforcement vehicle parked in your driveway. Get over yourself-they have. You may be the "talk of the neighborhood" today but people loose interest when you politely refuse to discuss your personal business.
    -There are now laws available to assist you with Stalking, Unwanted Contact etc. USE THEM.
    -Anticipate they are NOT going to simply gracefully accept your decision. Have a plan in place to address various scenarios. Keep your doors locked, don't allow kids to answer the door if they're too young to understand what's up. How you explain "what's up" is age contingent. (Hint: Just do the exact opposite of what your "parent(s)" would have done and the kids will be fine with Mom and Dad's decision.)
    -Yes, it's going to "get worse" before it "gets better." In every way. Don't hesitate to use every tool at your command to enforce your boundary.
    -You're a lot tougher than you know. If you survived growing up with these kinds of "parents" you have inner resources beyond your expectations and current self-knowledge.
    -If you had ANY lingering doubts about your decision to terminate the relationship I can absolutely assure you your decision will be confirmed spectacularly. PROMISE.
    -As an adult you absolutely have the right AND the responsibility to determine WHO will be a part of your life and who won't. If this person was anyone besides a "parent", would you have them in your life? In ANY capacity?
    We're here and we'll help you any way we can. I stumbled through this alone, prior to "Self-Help" books and the internet, cell phones etc. You're NOT alone.
    And that's a PROMISE too.

    1. TW - Can I use this as a post - there's too much awesome stuff here not to put it up there, big and bold, for everyone to see!

  9. ^ J, GOOD ON YOU! I just sent another response-I've had a few strokes and have a swiss-cheese brain (all these "holes" pop up unexpectedly) and I'm a slooower-than-dirt typist. My spelling is atrocious. I have all kinds of letters behind my name but for the longest time could not remember the phrase "Kitchen Counter." But I got really got at pantomiming it! (It's amazing how much stuff goes on around a "Kitchen Counter.") Words like "teleological" were present, accounted for and absolutely useless in every day life.
    By all means, GET A RESTRAINING ORDER!! The laws that are now in effect were NOT when I was going through this shit. Find out what local law enforcement needs to create your paper trail and GO FOR IT!

    1. TW- Now I have to go look up "teleological." haha! There's a lot of good info here. Thank you for sharing your experience with this.

      NMIL is very letter of the law. Even after NC, she still sent cards and letters via a relative. She'd write our names on the envelope and then give it to the relative to read, address and mail to us. See? She isn't sending DH mail... the relative is. I was thinking about her penchant for this sort of stupidity when I got to the NC section in which you said, "Do not contact me, my immediate family, neighbors, friends, employers." I don't think he mentioned employers, neighbors, friends, etc. DH's first NC letter wasn't necessarily to be NC forever. He was still figuring it out. It was "I need some time apart. I'll let you know when I'm ready. Don't contact me." Then when it didn't stop, later that year, DH sent another short "do not contact" via registered mail with return receipt with signature required. When they ambushed him recently, he was prepared with a hand-written, dated note that we have a copy of that definitively said that there was no chance of ever having a relationship with him-Do not contact. It seems stupid to say it more than once, but we didn't know what else to do. If it happens again, DH will call the police and get a paper trail started. They left when the cop told them to leave and didn't come back, so I don't know if there is an official record of that. I have looked into the RO for our state, but I think they'd laugh at us since most of the harassment has been through others or through mail until recently. Since this has escalated, I'm pretty sure they will show up in person again. I think we'll give the police copies of the no contact letters.

      I'm tired of moving, but there's got to be some sort of beautiful, impenetrable island fortress to which we can move, right? Until we find it- thanks, TW! -J

    2. "She'd write our names on the envelope and then give it to the relative to read, address and mail to us. See? She isn't sending DH mail..."

      YUP - just like when NMIL had people call DH for his b-day last year. That way, she could still get her messages sent, without calling him herself. I call this "playing word games." It's when they find loopholes to the boundaries/rules you've set, and it's just another form of dishonesty.

    3. "Do not contact me, my immediate family, neighbors, friends, employers." I don't think he mentioned employers, neighbors, friends, etc."

      Sigh. Here's the thing - if any of us received a letter from someone saying "Do not contact me anymore," not a one of us here would then set about ways to get around that. We wouldn't contact mutual acquaintances in an attempt to send messages so that we can say we followed the rule since we didn't call the person ourselves. We wouldn't go to the crazy lengths of sending mail to someone else to send to them. We wouldn't send them emails because their NC letter only specified, "don't call me anymore."

      No contact means no contact, in any way, shape, or form.

      And THEY KNOW THAT. They also expect us to think it's OUR fault: that we weren't clear enough with what we were asking, that we didn't use just the right words, that we don't, you know, "communicate well" or "explain enough." This is bullshit.

      They know what "do not contact me" means. They just don't give a shit. If they were willing and capable of honoring your needs and respecting your wishes, then you wouldn't be in the position of having to go NC with them in the first place.

      Still, I agree with TW that that type of language is best when sending your letter of NC. But not because it's going to make a difference to the narc. After they've tried getting around your desires by playing word games, they'll just go back to blatantly disregarding your needs.

      No, the use of that language is really for the law enforcement you'll be contacting when your engulfing, stalking narcissists get REALLY out of hand.

    4. When NGC told me to have no further contact with him because of the life-threatening stress I was causing him, I happily complied. It never even occurred to me that I had various ways of by-passing his request.

      My NM recently made some reference to my relationship with my NGC and I replied, "I am simply honouring his request that I not contact him. End of discussion." The old bat wisely changed the subject back to her.

      And yeah, on the odd occasion when I talk to them, that is exactly the way I control things. If they don't like it they now know from experience I'll go full NC.

    5. J, I consider myself really lucky in that neither my NPs nor the NGC are in possession of a car. In fact, I made sure neither one of my NPs still have their license. Given the seizure thing, I would imagine the NGC's family doctor has pulled his by now so he can't even rent a car. If not, I can give a quick call to the local police and make that happen!

      I would never give up my beautiful home or quiet little town to escape my NFOO but then I live in a jurisdiction that has some pretty strong anti-stalking laws! I'm also surrounded by amazing neighbours who look out for me. (I've never cut grass or shoveled snow since DH died!)

      If you do have to move again, come on up to Canada!

    6. Mulderfan, I haven't been to Canada yet but it's on my list! I do like to live in a warm climate, but I suppose I could just wear a sweater instead. :) I'm really glad that you've found security. I think we will feel safer with time and effort. We are really focusing on finding good friends and developing healthy, new relationships since many from both of our pasts have been so toxic.

      Jonsi, yes! It must all just be some sort of sick game to them. This is an excellent point:
      "No contact means no contact. And THEY KNOW THAT. They also expect us to think it's OUR fault: that we weren't clear enough with what we were asking, that we didn't use just the right words, that we don't, you know, "communicate well" or "explain enough." This is bullshit. "

      It's always been a major point for them. This is crazy-making- makes you doubt your perceptions. It's DH's fault; it's the evil DIL's fault; it's never, ever their fault.

    7. J, right now the air conditioning is going full blast and it's just keeping ahead of the heat! Here is Southern Ontario we are further south than many US locations!

      On a more serious note, I've made a conscious effort to build a support system outside my NFOO. I've reconnected with my two cousins but I've also come to realize that "family" has nothing to do with blood ties. I have friends that are more supportive and loving than my NFOO ever was and I value and nurture such relationships.

      A few years ago when my DD had a DUI, a neighbour was the first one at my door wanting to know how he could help. My 75 year old neighbour said I should have woken her in the middle of the night to go along when I went to the police station!

      Meanwhile, the NGC used it as an opportunity to turn on us and stab me in the back when I sought his help.

      That was a real wake up call! Now I know for sure the narcissistic fucks are useless when the tables are turned and YOU NEED THEM.

  10. Wow J! You and TW make me feel downright lucky by comparison!

    When my N older brother was alive things got pretty scary with up to 20 threatening calls a day. Finally when he left a message saying he was "coming to get" me, my DH called him and said, "Come on over, I'll be waiting for you in the driveway." and the coward stopped the calls.

    We had peace for a while and then we moved and got an unlisted number. The fuck couldn't be quiet for long and when his daughter "kindly" gave him my address he started with snail-mail threatening to break up my marriage by telling DH my "secrets". WTF? To this day I have no idea what the secrets were going to be!

    After I ignored him at a family function he went back to my NPs place, which was nearby, and proceeded to trash it but left when they called the police.

    I am only safe from this nut-job because he was killed in an accident 3 months before my DH died. My NPs have since elevated the sick-fuck (who they have been told molested his own daughter and tried to put the moves on mine) to sainthood!

    1. Mulderfan, WOW to you too! That's seriously messed up. I'd be a basket case with someone threatening me with physical harm like that. I'm sorry you were dealt such an asshole for a brother. I'm so shocked that your NPs have failed to see what he really was or don't care. *snark*

      DH's NPs haven't threatened to harm us although NMIL is fond of practice shooting. Unfortunately, she's got good aim - used to hang her paper bull's eye targets on her office wall showcasing how close her shots were grouped together. I wish I was kidding! The significance of that was lost on me until recently. So far, it's been all sneaky, guilt-inducing, psychological crap and smugness that they were able to find us. DH has an NGC brother who, for now, I can't imagine threatening us to our faces. Instead, he's more of a back-stabbing bully. With the money and family business he will inherit someday, he'll bully those who won't bow down to him just like his parents do now. -J

    2. TW, stalking-by-proxy. Thank you! I knew there had to be a name for it. NPs are usually litigious, so maybe a cease and desist would make them quit. (Although, NFIL claimed to be done in the final letter given to the cop to give to us. It was not a letter from or signed by NMIL. Guess we'll see.) Ok - more to look into. You are so helpful! -J

  11. Also, J-Get an attorney to step forward here with a Cease and Desist letter that includes stalking-by-proxy: PIs. Your first consult with an attorney is generally gratis so come armed with all your questions. If you can afford it, hire a firm that has Criminal and Civil-and if you have kids, Family Law as well.
    You CAN do this.

  12. Jonsi, honey it's your Blog and I'm now really embarrassed-I just remembered one other REALLY important "item" for "The List:"
    ALWAYS, always, always (got that??!!) refer to the Estranged Parent(s) as "My BIOLOGICAL Parent(s)." I can't stress how important that term is: It sets a tone and tenor that is imperative to get your point across when dealing with anyone outside your immediate family. For all anyone else knows you were adopted and later your "biological" parent(s) started with the stalking, etc. You will be taken much more seriously, it will not appear a Permanent Estrangement is "just a Family Feud" and IMO, it is an HONEST appraisal of their role in your life.

    My sincere apologies for being such a thread hog. Mulderfan, I hear ya! Gawd, even the DEAD provide all kinds of opportunity for disgusting and predatory behavior. I'm so sorry, Little One.
    OK, I'll try to shut up now-doesn't "try" give us all kinds of "wiggle room?" Where have we heard THAT before! ;)

    1. Oh! I'm sorry - I didn't mean to embarrass you and I don't think you're a thread hog. Actually, I think we've got an awesome dialog going here, so if you've got more, by all means keep it coming!

      I'll add that newest point to the list and do the whole thing as a post on it's own. It's just too good not to. You hit everything.

    2. TW, these dialogues help keep me sane by making me realize I'm not alone and by giving me great advice for moving forward with my quest for freedom from the mind-fucks my NFOO like to dish out.

      Without these blogs, I'd still be in the dark wondering what the hell is wrong with ME!

      Right now, I'm full NC with the NGC and with the NPs I'm following Howard Halpern's suggestion to step back and observe their "song and dance". This kind of detached observation has given me a chance to decide exactly what boundaries I want in place and how I plan to react if they attempt to breech them. So far so good but the cynic in me suspects it won't last!

  13. Oh, I meant I'm embarrassed by my swiss-cheese brain as well as taking up so much "space." How much I've enjoyed hearing from all of you as well!
    I'd love to believe my situation is quite rare, but sadly it's not. There's again our collective observation/experience of extremes. Either we're ignored or the EPs pull "The Nuclear Option."
    Mine also continued her correspondence as if we had just spoken yesterday despite NO response from me for YEARS while she was concurrently attempting to destroy me, my family, my life. My gawd, they are RUTHLESS, SHAMELESS and BAT-SHIT CRAZY. This is NOT about "Love" unless it's a IRL demonstration of "All's fair in love and war." Psychobitch told me repeatedly after Dad divorced her and I was fighting to see him for a few hours once a week on Sun., "You're either WITH me or AGAINST me." I was 18 when Dad left and started Divorce proceedings: Her words: "He DESERTED his family"-BS, he ran for his life 4 months post a major MI from which he was not expected to recover. She was evicted from ICU by his primary-I was there and saw it. And she would NOT allow him to come to the house to pick me up or drop me off on Sun. I had to meet him on a street corner. Then I was grilled like a toasted cheese sandwich when I got home all about what he had, how his placed was furnished blaa-blaa-blaa. She screwed up my college education beyond belief-it was just a mess.
    I should have gone and lived with Dad. But I was such a Parentified Child I felt Psychobitch needed me more. I also knew if I lived with Dad that would give her further ammo to harass the man. She drug him to court repeatedly over Child Support after telling me with huge dramatic flourish, "I told that judge I don't want a DAMN THING from him!" The judge set the minimum support-25. which Dad sent faithfully. Psychobitch had me sign the checks and I never saw ANY money. Then she drug me back to court and insisted I perjur myself on the stand and lie about my signature on the back of the checks. I got on the stand and told the truth. Driving with her was a nightmare under the best circumstances and I remember little of the ride home. I do recall she pulled into some fast-food place and drug me inside. She was royally pissed when I wouldn't eat because I was a nervous wreck-I was sure she was gonna kill me in a vehicle crash. She went totally nuts after he left. I was so frightened by her behavior (she put on her "own birthday party"-a whole 'nother story) I called her brother, my Uncle long distance (which was a big deal in those days) and begged him to come help. No luck-he simply couldn't. And I understand that.
    Yk, if we can survive growing up with these nut cases, there's nothing that life can throw our way that we can't manage-or blunder through somehow. Is it any wonder so many of us have disastrous young adult relationships? Chemical Dependency Problems? Mental Health dxs? Trauma does a number on people. Kids ARE "People." But these POS "parents" never got that memo no matter how frequently it was re-sent.
    The most important thing IMO is WE "got it." And we get OUT. One way or another.

    1. TW, time and again I wish you had your own blog. You just, have so much to say...and you say it so well. Your writing has everything necessary to make you a best-seller, if you were to write a book and publish it.

      Anyway, every point you just made is spot on, in my opinion. I feel like I could pick each sentence, and write all about how much I agree with it and why. But that would take forever. So I'll just say, "YES YES YES" times a million!

  14. Oh thanks but you and the other Bloggers for AC's do a phenomenal job of covering the topic in all it's disgusting "glory." I have so much respect for you and the others-you all are the truly courageous, IMO. I shudder to think of the crap these "EPs" send your way-you're putting yourself out there as a target for every wacko "Parent" who needs a proxy to beat up because they can't terrorize their own AC with as much shit as a Blogger who represents everything they hate about their own Adult Kid..
    No doubt it appears to the EPs I'm full of "hate" and "venom." If I am, what of it? What I DO feel towards my Psychobitch is complete and utter CONTEMPT. Several things have come together for me in these last few years: We finally got reliable internet service in the impoverished, remote area where I reside. I am now the same age as Psychobitch the last time I was in her physical presence. And I am more horrified than I ever felt in the past about her behavior and those of her ilk. There are many changes that come with age-I kid with my best friend of the last 32 yrs. about aging-"When everything on the outside starts falling apart, everything on the inside starts really coming together!" Life was not meant to be a "Life Sentence:" It really is an adventure-an opportunity to learn, to grow in compassion and understanding, to put our hand out to someone who we know needs it with no expectation of "return on investment."
    I look with a very jaundiced eye at those who proclaim, "Estrangements in families are growing in unprecedented numbers." Really? REALLY? Cite your stats so I can review them. Too many people confuse "fact" with "opinion." And it seems to me with this topic there's a whole bunch of people who are making big bucks self-promoting their "services" to both "sides." ACs are not as "broken" as they think or have been led to believe: We're a pretty hardy bunch. And the EPs who NEED "assistance" will fall prey to the likes of these self-proclaimed "Menders" of broken families and broken hearts with their credit cards and check books. The abusers will never truly accept ANY responsibility for their behavior. And it is THAT reality the AC eventually accepts, integrates and moves forward with the knowledge to change their own lives for the better, for their children, for the future.
    My history is unique to me just as everyone else has their own history of experiences and horrors. There are still so many commonalities we share. I know every time I read these Blogs there are REAL human beings behind these words on a screen. And there's a ton of pain, confusion, uncertainty. But if we can't help one another what are we here for? If we can't share our knowledge and experience what value does it have beyond self-serving?
    Many, many thanks to all of you. I'm sorry beyond words for your pain. I may not add a comment to your Blog but that doesn't mean I'm not reading it and shaking my head in solidarity. Please know FWIW there's a little old widow with a geriatric cat living in The Tundra who's cheering you on every step of your journey.
    Warmest Wishes, Many THANKS to all of my brothas and sistas out there,

    1. [[TW]] I have so much respect and gratitude for you. Thank you.

    2. Beautiful words...Thank you, TW, for sharing. Hugs to you and Jonsi and Mulderfan! I wish I'd found you all sooner. It means so much to know there are others out there who understand this. -J