Saturday, August 6, 2011

Form Letter

Dear Readers, there is a very good reason why NMIL's email to my husband seemed so lacking in heart, so generic, and so lazy.

It was a form letter that she copied and pasted, almost word for word, from Dr. Coleman's suggested form letters for parents to send to their estranged children.

Out of curiosity, I googled a line from her email and within seconds, hit on this forum for estranged parents. The link on google brought me directly to a page where an estranged mother had this to say (I have highlighted the sections that are identical, or nearly-identical to the email from NMIL):

Title of Post: Can't send my letter of amends yet
Posted on 04/18/11, 02:50 pm

Hi everyone. Hope you are all in a good space. I wrote my letter of amends last week and I just can't seem to being myslef to mail it. I followed Dr. Coleman's suggestions and instructions but it just feels like it is letting her off the hook. This weekend will mark 2 years since my ED talked to me...maybe it just seems that we've issed the opportunity.

The thing that Dr. Coleman said that keeps echoing in my head is that many of the EC he's talked to felt that parents didn't try to contact their EC more. I've done that and I have just given up trying. I waffle between acceptance and anguish.

Any thoughts? here's my letter as per Dr. Coleman:

April 15, 2011

Dear Caitlin:

You are my child and I love you dearly. I know that I made terrible mistakes with you when you were growing up. I know at times I didn’t show you the respect that you wanted. I know that you must be in a lot of pain to want to cut off contact with me.

I have reread your emails and I am glad now that you let me know how you feel. I am so sorry for the ways that I let you down as a parent. I know that I was harsh in many ways as well as being distant and not respectful of the adult you have become and that that was hurtful to you. I could understand why that would make it harder to have a relationship with me. It is true that I was preoccupied in many ways when you were a young adult and that it prevented me from being as involved with you as would have been good for you. I know I didn’t treat you as the adult you have become.

I hope there are ways that I can make it up to you in the future. I have tried hard to make amends to you and am willing to continue talking about whatever is important to you about the past if it can move us closer together. I do want to hear what you feel and would always be open to a letter, a phone call, or a meeting with a family therapist if that would be helpful.

I really want you to be happy, and I am coming to accept that you don't want to have a relationship with me. It's heartbreaking, as your parent, to not be able to see you or talk to you. At the same time, if you believe it's in your best interest, then I don't want you to feel guilty. You must have your reasons and I can accept your decision if that's what you have to do. I want you to know that the door will be open for the rest of your life if you change your mind. Until then, I will respect your wishes and refrain from contacting you.

With my love,


I am sad to say, Dear Reader, that I am not surprised. Disgusted and appalled. But not surprised. This is precisely the reason that I felt that NMIL spent no more than five minutes writing her email. In fact, it seems she may have spent even less time than that.

It is sad and appalling to me that this woman couldn't even be bothered to put forth the effort to save any sort of relationship with her son. It is sad and appalling to me that the thought of losing her son for the rest of his life isn't enough to make her change. This is proof that I was right - NMIL has no heart.

She is empty. She is barren of empathy. It is proof that she just sent this email to my husband so that she could turn around and show others what a "loving" mother she is. Her email is down-right creepy and robotic, and it seems that you, my dear readers, have picked up on that.

I would like to share some of my dear readers comments on NMIL's email, since they were right on the money:

Judy said, "It was a very typical narcissistic type of communication. It was all about her. Her perceptions, her feelings, her wants, her needs."

Anon said, "Any and all "apologies" from a narc are maneuver in any event to get their needs met: "F you and your feelings/life" etc. Let's have a round of applause for "disingenuous. "Love" is truly a four letter word in their world...Yep, your sense that this was meant for "public consumption" is a very accurate take."

Ruth wrote (On DH's post): "Nice generic letter that could have been written by my mother to me. Or any number of other people."

Mulderfan wrote (On DH's post): "Ruth is right..."generic" not a heartfelt letter of remorse just more bull shit!"

Thank you, everyone, for your insightful thoughts. It would seem our instincts about NMIL's email were one hundred percent accurate.


  1. WOW! Shallow, heartless bitch! Hopefully this is the final nail in NMIL's coffin.

    What a heart breaking revelation this must be for your DH! My heart aches for him. Thankfully, he has you to apply healing hugs and kisses.

    (I can't believe the train wrecks Coleman's cyber advice leaves in its wake!)

  2. Heartless....yep, that's what I keep going back to too, Mulderfan.

    She's got no heart!

  3. How awful. Can't she write from her own heart? She clearly has no idea how to. Well spotted jonsi x

  4. And then Coleman goes on to address the "issue" of when an estranged son/daughter sees your "letter of amends" as a manipulation - furnishing them with more strategy to handle this reaction - it's like, HELLO, it IS a manipulation! Why would you arm an estranged parent with more strategy to deflect their adult son/daughters' legitimate reaction to a fake letter???

    This kind of tactic misses the point completely, makes estrangements worse, and further entrenches the problems that lead to the estrangement in the first place.

    talk about epic fail!

  5. omg. jeez that is...i mean jeez. i don't know. that's just a shock, wow. ugh. it's sad. very very sad. for your husband. wow. i hope he sees now just what an awful truth this is. shit, she just tried to pull the wool over his eyes.
    way to go with the cybersleuthing, without it, this nail wouldn't have gotten nailed!

  6. Well.... since I'm trying to look on the bright side of things lately, instead of always the negative, I'm going to say....

    hmmmm....think, think, think,....

    It's a positive that she took the time to google "amends letters" and cut and paste one together??? She could have just blamed it all on you. :)

  7. I see what you mean Jonsi. Stunning to realize that copying a letter would thought to be OK way to make amends. No wonder it sounds like a form letter. I wonder if Dr. Coleman comprehends the increased damage he is causing by encouraging these type of tactis? I guess the way to hell is paved in good intentions. Sorry to see this is what happened to your DH. He doesn't deserve this at all.

  8. The really scary part? What she LEFT OUT of the form letter. This shows evil intent.

    She leaves out the apology part, fake as it is. She leaves out the part about not wanting her child to feel guilty.

  9. Sadly classic. And wow, for a professional to arm his patients with a form of manipulation that they don't even need to think up on their own.

  10. I am so sorry your DH had to experience another blow. The lengths to which they will go to deceive is beyond the pale.

    This is what professionals do? No wonder so many of us can't stand them! It seems only those of us who have been abused are able to comfort and support each other. I think that's probably why support groups like AA and NA are successful -- because people who have the addictions are most suited to help others like themselves.

  11. it's all so stupid. coleman must be some sort of narcissist himself. "here, this will fool everyone!" either that or really really really naive. maybe the parents told him "but we dont know how to sound like real human beings!" "okay i've got it figured. i have collected a group of sentences that other human beings say."
    really, in a way, this letter is just like that email. it's a bunch of conventional sentences. that's the creepiness of it. now you know exactly how they operate. they literally mentally copy+paste the shit that spews out of their mouths. hahaha. as fake as a billboard of a beach. nothing behind it. creepy.

  12. Jonsi, I was just reading through your blog. Your NMIL is something one only hopes to come into contact with in a dark comedy type of movie. Yikes.

    I was lucky in my MIL, she was a wonderfl person as was my FIL. Sadly both of them are dead (a year apart no less).

    My husband's family has been such a gift. Not perfect, but very very nice people with souls and caring.

  13. Winterskiprincess - I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your husband's parents. I'm sure it's particularly harder because you considered them to be kind and loving people.

    I've come to the conclusion about my NMIL that she is, in fact, evil. It's always validating to hear that others agree with that assessment.

    I am lucky in my life in having been blessed with loving, kind, and wonderful parents. Luckily, they are still here and are always here for us. My parents have really reached out to DH and accepted them into their love. I'm glad that we have them in our lives, and that our children will at least have one set of loving (non-evil!) grandparents.

  14. Sorry to be late to the post here, but I had to chime in with Pronoia -- really frightening what your NMIL chose to leave out of her copy of the letter. I also am alarmed at what Dr Coleman's forum inadvertently feeds (or maybe he is deliberate. i'm still hanging on to some naiveté that most people aren't mercenary).

    I wrote a massive comment to this post (your blog inspired my needing to get a load off my chest), but I didn't want to hijack your site. So, I posted the full rant/ramble on my neglected blog instead and linked back here. If that is not cool with you, let me know and I will remove the link and mention of your blog. The link is

    Anyway, I had to express my own dismay at realizing how much I would love a letter like that from my NM. This weekend, I received a non-apology from her that carefully avoided any true expression of contrition or affection. One of those "I regret that the situation has become so tense" blathers. She is hoping to redraw the boundary line because she wants something rather significant from me that I had been willing to do for her -- if she hadn't repeatedly lied and tried to manipulate me, even after multiple requests to cease or I would not be able to continue to work with her.

    Good lord, I could only dream of her ever sending a note saying she would see a therapy as a family (even if it were purportedly to get me over "my" issues) or say she had an interest in hearing my feelings. Hell, I'd take hearing her say she made terrible mistakes even if she meant she's only acknowledging that her mistake was to have me! She is that incapable of taking even an iota of responsibility for her parenting.

    And I am that sadly thirsty for signs of real humanity in the woman. I have to stop trying to get drinks from the damn empty well.

    I’m a little skeptical of Dr Coleman’s methods of assisting estranged family members via his forum and website. In his noticeably precise message delivery, he provides too much leniency for malicious narcissists (or rather, he neglects to delineate those parents who might cause more harm by adopting his advice and gives wide berth for narcissists to identify themselves as among the conscientious good parents he describes.

  15. vicariousrising - By all means, link away. I'm really glad that this post inspired you, though I'm saddened for you, that NMIL's copy-and-pasted letter of amends could possibly seem better than what you've gotten from your own NM.

    I think that for me, the two biggest problems with NMIL's letter, as you've pointed out, are that she left out the part about not wanting her son to feel guilty, and that she so lacks the empathy required to write a true letter of apology and amends. To me, her letter represents more than just a lack of originality, it represents how very empty she is, and I'm sorry that there are so many more people out there like her.

    When you think of what a mother is supposed to be, the love that she is supposed to give...people like your NM and NMIL are just so scarily opposite. And you're right, Dr. Coleman is merely playing the game of these malignant narcissists in order to have his 15 minutes and make his money.

    Thank you for taking the time to comment here, I appreciate your voice.

  16. Help, help.

    I was just in an educational seminar with a lawyer who I really like and respect. The topic of parents disinheriting their children was part of the agenda. This lovely, female lawyer stated that in her experience when sons were estranged it was usually the parents' fault, but when daughters were estranged it was usually the daughters' fault. She described having mothers in her office, sobbing then when the parent died the estranged child suddenly appears looking for the money. She described how hard these Mothers tried to be in contact with their daughters only to be ignored. In the case when mothers wanted to disinherit their daughters her advice was to keep a record of how often they tried to make contact so that the other heirs could show that it was the daughters' fault that the estrangement continued.

    Ouch. Hurts to hear the truth of how we are perceived. I know that my own mother could be one of these sobbing clients, showing her lawyer the loving letters she has sent. I wonder if the difference is that daughters are expected to be the care giver whereas sons are allowed to live their own lives?

    1. They will eternally try to make themselves out to be the "good guy/gal". Never their fault. Always the nasty rotten children.

      What a load.

  17. OMG!!! What is wrong with you people. You don't know anything about this woman who was trying her best to reach out to her estranged child and you say things about her you don't even know to be true. How can what she says lead you to believe she's narcisstic and "evil"? Evil, that is really a stretch. She was using an example letter obviously because everything else she has tried has failed. Having a daughter who is emotionally out of control and who won't speak to me or let me see my grandkids unless I condone her wild behavior and her blackmail attempts to get money out of me is heartbreaking. I have to stay away from her just to keep my sanity and what little money I have left after practically supporting her and her husband and children for the past 9 years! Realize that your generation has been given life on a silver platter and it used to be a child had to earn his parents love and respect, now, because you children are so spoiled, we have to earn your respect. Well, most of you are immature and selfish and yes, narcisstic. You have no respect for your elders or have no appreciation for what it takes to give, give give to your child while all they do is take. You all should be ashamed of yourselves. Wait until you have children and they all leave begging and pleading for some love and attention. Because, if it's true that goes around, comes around, you will all be left by your children when you need them. This is a selfish, commpassionless, heartless generation and you are all prime examples of it!!!!!!!

    1. Oh my god. You can not even possibly understand the amount of fucks I do not give. STFU.

    2. Exactly what generation is this nut bar referring to? I'm sixty-seven and not a single fuck is given by me either!

    3. I always find that EP argument funny because it's completely invalid.

    4. Hey Bitch. Try shaming me. When you can make sense of the fucking loonatic I had for a mother, come back and we'll talk. Until then shut the fuck up. You know not of what you speak.

    5. "You...have no appreciation for what it takes to give, give give to your child while all they do is take."

      How can anyone think this would be a good way to treat any child? How could this possibly be in their best interests, or be healthy for them, or teach them anything desirable? --quartz

    6. And displacement!

      Also, I just love the sweeping arguments they make against a particular generation. I'm with Mulderfan; which generation? 'Cause I'm pretty sure we've got at least two represented here and this whack-job probably belongs to one of them herself.

    7. It is very, very sad what is being said about parents here. To the woman who runs this blog and has no fucks left to give - I will tell you you do not deserve your MIL. None are so blind as those who will not see. Shame.

  18. Bwahahahaha. This woman is a loon.

    I'd never beg my kid to give me attention. How gross. He's getting ready to go to college, and I fully expect I won't hear much from him for awhile. I think he'll be back. He doesn't want to go to school too far from home even if he does make Herculean efforts to not spend time with me and my husband right now.

    He's not required to like me. I would be ashamed of myself if I expected him to take care of me or make me happy. That is NOT his job.

    As for my silver platter... I think my mom kept mine. I ain't never seen no silver platter. I never ask my parents for money because they think they own me if I accept their "charity". I don't know this woman's situation, but to make a blanket statement about all estranged adult children based on her obviously failed attempt at parenting is, well, idiotic and derails any sympathy she might get if she does indeed have a bad seed child.

    But I suspect by her mudslinging comment that she was a shitty mother and did the same to her daughter. Run, loon's daughter, run! And don't ask mommy for money anymore, no matter how much you need it. It'll cost you your soul. And maybe the souls of your children. Run away!

  19. I am starting to think there is a huge correlation between narcs and aspergers. (I mean, this is probably a DUH thing) - "you told me what you want. That form letter says exactly what you want to hear. So I copied it. [but, mother, it's just an EXAMPLE!] YOU SAID IT WAS WHAT YOU WANTED ME TO SAY so I said it! You're never happy!"

    They're like robots. They're just so ugly.

  20. Gladys I think you are right. I saw too many blank faces from the Barbarian when I confronted her with her rage against people who did something to her that she habitually did to others.
    Just a total blank stare. Like what's that got to do with this.

  21. Oh man, I read through the linked post first. There were two pages of posts and on the second page the original letter writer talks about when her daughter was young she choose to live with her dad blah, blah, blah. Then, she mentions him dying and her 16 year old daughter coming to live with her, but her not wanting to get too close to her because of what her daughter (16 yo, remember?) had done to her in the past. She mentions her focus then was with the then love of her life. She goes on to say that she didn't mean a damned word in the letter she wrote, she was just using it to get back in the good graces of her daughter.

    My husband's mother is like this. He slowly started having less contact with her and not answering her every phone call and bc he wasn't answering she decided to go ahead and get married and not invite him. She had all three of his other siblings there, but not him. All bc he didn't call her back for 3 weeks. Now she sends spies around to see if he's using drugs because she just can't imagine why he won't talk to her. (He was a drug addict at one time, bc who wouldn't be having a family like that. But, he hasn't been for a long time.) It must be because of something HE is ashamed of, right? It's been over a year since this happened. He has talked to her twice on the phone. She never mentioned getting married only wanted to tell him about her illness. She also randomly calls and hangs up. We know it's her because she has her phone set to show up as restricted and no one but her calls us like that. If he answers, the person on the other end hangs up. They will then call back and the same thing. If he doesn't answer they never leave a message. It's just her creating the "proof" that she's called him and he's not responding.

    We know she has shown text messages etc to his siblings because they have brought it up. "Well, mom showed me that she sent you a text...or email...or whatever." They don't see that she is full of crap and will make up whatever she can to be the good parent. Always going on about how she did the best she could. I guess the best she could do was let the man she married abuse my husband as a child and only leave when her husband starting raising his hand to her.

    She mostly lets everyone else do the dirty work. It's her MO. Her younger daughter, my husband's half sister, is totatlly insane to deal with. She is N and BPD and probably all kinds of other things. Uses her kids as weapons. His mom never calls the sister on her crap. I know as a parent you don't want to take sides over petty arguments, but sometimes your kids are wrong and you should tell them. His mom always says it's about the grandkids, but both of us realize that if we had kids (also would be her grandkids) she wouldn't let me act like a crazy bitch. Those two are two peas in one crazy pod and we couldn't take it anymore. My husband just can't deal with them. I can't deal with them. There is no way to deal with them.

    I tried everything I could to get along, but I can't handle people changing words in my emails and stealing my FB password and lying about the things I said. I gave up 6 months into our relationship with his family. I have never been made to feel so terrible in my life by people who never had the balls to tell me they didn't like me to my face. It was all backhanded bullshit. They are all so caught up in the triangle. Once you step outside of it, there is nothing they can use to touch you. There is no letter in the world my husband would want from his mother. There is nothing she can say. It is too late. If she really changed or felt sorry she wouldn't need any doctor to tell her what to say, because she would know immediately what she had done wrong and it never would have had to be written in the first place.

    Thank you for your blog!

    1. Hi Anon - That's an interesting bit of information you dug up on the woman who wrote the original post on the daily strength forum - I don't know that I had read through all the postings at the time I discovered it, but I find it intriguing now that the writer went back and admitted she was using the form letter as a ruse to get back in her daughter's good graces. What a fraud. I think she's unusual in her admittance of wrong-doing. In my experience, most of the narcs keep that business to themselves. It's only every once in a while that their masks slip. I'd venture a guess that ALL narcissists who have used this form letter to get "back in" with their estranged (or semi-estranged) kids are up to no good.

      Your MIL sounds just like mine - right down to the BPD daughter from another marriage who can "do no wrong." There is absolutely no talking reason with people like this, they are too wrapped up in their own delusions. I've always said to DH that if these people changed, you would know it, without a doubt. You would feel it in your bones. Just as instinct points out when people are lying to us, it also points out when people are being honest. Unfortunately, that's the one thing you'll never get from a narcissist. I doubt they have even one authentic bone in their bodies.

      Welcome to the "Evil Daughter-In-Laws Club!" I'm both sorry, and glad that you're a part of it.



  22. What ever happened to giving someone the benefit of the doubt, "she did the best she could given her ability and the situation at the time". Wow. Her heart has been broken, she is at the end of the road wherein she can let go and hope or keep hanging on and lose her sanity.

    And please, don't comment on Coleman if you haven't been through any of his seminars or read his books. His message is simple, that if you want to reconnect with your adult estranged child, it has to be on their terms, that the parent doesn't get to call the shots at all. All this happens at a snail's pace -- no demands, just be happy when they do write or call, remember birthdays and holidays without demands of any kind... etc. He also reminds parents to take care of themselves -- watch for depression and social withdrawal.

    When you grow up, and experience this kind of rejection, you have no idea what hurt really is. It's a numbing pain. I know. My son was a 'victim' of systematic alienation against me, while he was overseas fighting. His brother even told him that it was all lies and my older son even apologized to me for believing it all. However, his wife already made up her mind about me and now I have grandchildren I won't get to see grow up, a son that (rightfully so) is very loyal to his wife and doesn't want conflict so I hear little from him. And a daughter-in-law whom I would have loved to call 'daughter' who won't have anything to do with me as she has already aligned with the ex- and his wife (who started the lies).

    It's horrible. And I know that if I stand up and make myself known to all who have heard and/or bought into the alienation (look it's real), I will only end up making myself look like an ass. So I wait...and wait. Hoping someday, somehow, we can reconnect and I can love them the way I'd like to. The only thing I can do is hold on, be true to myself and move on.

    BTW, is this just your public rant? Trashing people you don't even know?

    MayoClinic Definition of Narcissist:
    Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. Those with narcissistic personality disorder believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for other people's feelings. But behind this mask of ultra-confidence lies a fragile self-esteem, vulnerable to the slightest criticism.

    Narcissistic personality disorder is one of several types of personality disorders. Personality disorders are conditions in which people have traits that cause them to feel and behave in socially distressing ways, limiting their ability to function in relationships and in other areas of their life, such as work or school.

    That sounds like many of you... think on that

    1. Anon: Different violin, same tune.

    2. You all are sick. I don't care if the Blog Bitch approves this or not. Evil, sick twisted little entitled brats who find other people disposable. Shame on you. Karma is coming!

    3. I agree with Annonymous. It comes down to the ability to forgive, and some adult children persist in negatively magnifying their anger to justify their bad behavior.

      I have found there is indeed a blatant lack of respect by many adult children towards their parents these days. So many of my own friends who are parents, weep at how their adult children regard them with such coldness. And these are wonderful, loving moms, with huge, generous hearts.

      I have reached out to my own daughter for the past 22 years, who refuses to acknowledge why she continues to keep me at a distance. Sadly, she treats me as though I were a leper.

      I have apologized to my daughter at least 25 times ~ on my knees begging her forgiveness. I had left her home alone numerous times when I had gone out on a dates in my younger days. I wish I could turn back the clock and do things differently.

      I was an idiot, truly stupid ~ and I've admitted it. I've asked her to bury the hatchet in my head and heart ~ to slap me if she wants ~ whatever she needs to do to be able to forgive.

      She answers with "I'm not mad" ~ yet her actions prove otherwise. I offer to fly to LA to visit her ~ I'd take UBER to not inconvenience her, and stay in a motel.

      She responds with, "she's busy." The infrequent times she visits me, I gladly pay for her airfare. I care for her with much love, treating her like a princess ~ cook delicious meals, take her out to dinners.. . Whatever her heart desires, I enthusiastically agree to.

      I do everything humanly possible to prove my love and devotion to her, but she has built that wall so high, and nothing I do makes a difference ~ and believe me, I've tried everything.

      Friends and family have said she appears to take delight in abusing me. But every time I feel anger and frustration well up within my heart, I remember Corinthians ~ "Love is patient and kind, it does not keep a record of wrongs ~ it is always ready to excuse, to forgive, to embrace the truth. Love does not come to an end."

      The sad thing is it's one sided. She is truly not interested in a relationship with me.

      The excruciating pain in my heart, mind and soul is a black cloud hovering over me every moment of my existence. I adore my one and only daughter to the depths of my soul ~ but not having memories to share ~ no holidays, nor birthdays, has me longing to die . .

      I have sought therapy, and was told to let her go, and have her come to me. I have attempted that strategy, but it hasn't worked. It's such a no win situation ~ she's peeved if I reach out to her, so, if I let time go by ~ she's cold as ice.

      I cannot cope any longer. If anyone has any ideas to share with me, I would appreciate your kindness in letting me know. Sadly, even prayer hasn't been effective. I'm at such a loss . . .

  23. Anon, I've tasted your flavor before but I'll bite:

    In my experience, giving people the benefit of the doubt usually ends with me on the shitty end of things, which I generally don't like and anyway, I hear a "should" in your statement which seems to be implying that we (as in this community, or estranged adult children, or perhaps the infamous hated DIL's) SHOULD be giving the benefit of the doubt where you would. I simply don't subscribe to that belief.

    I have read Coleman and I've listened to several of his seminars, though I do not believe that either of those are conditional to the ability for one to have either an informed or a lively discussion about the subjects he discusses. Having said that, by and large, the issue that I take up with Dr. Coleman has more to do with my belief that he caters to the personality disordered by encouraging them to stalk their estranged adult children - as well as the CONDUCT of so many of the estranged parents he coaches - than it has to do with Dr. Coleman personally.

    I'll choose to interpret your "When you grow up" comment as a fallacy on your part that you've been reading a blog post written by a very well-spoken five year old, rather than take it as the insult I believe it was meant as.

    Also: thanks for invalidating the pain of so many people with just a few sentences; and for informing me that you WOULD "love" your son and DIL, if only they did whatever it is you think they should be doing.

    Clearly you haven't read much on my blog, or else you would have realized that: Yes, I do indeed rant here, quite a bit; and No, I do not ever "trash people I do not know." I discuss the issues I have in my interpersonal relationships. I gather information about the subjects which most interest me and share them with my friends and readers. I make connections between experiences I have shared and the experiences of others. I note details and record them carefully. And, as in the case of this post, I point out the obvious and deceitful tactics my husband's biological mother has used as a means to bolster her own image - THE COST OF WHICH IS THE RELATIONSHIP SHE COULD HAVE HAD WITH HER SON AND HER SON'S FAMILY.

    Your commentary here does little to convince me that you are any different than the very people we have tried to escape.

    And as for coming here and calling us all narcissists? I have one question: Does that also apply to the anon who started off her diatribe on this note: "OMG!!! What is wrong with you people." or simply the people who have written commentary that largely disagrees with your own mindset?

  24. Anon. The problem with giving the disordered the benefit of the doubt . Is that you have to have contact and interaction with them to do it. And the other person always loses with them. Yes they act in socially distressing ways but it is the people around them that feel the distress. It's like Lucy and Charlie Brown playing football How many times must we give it our all only to have everything yanked out from under us as we bust our ass and sit there while the narcissist laughs at us and we are the butt of their sick joke all over again.


  26. I have a 30 year old son who seems to have cut me out of his life. His father and I divorced when he was 13. He went to live with my ex "temporarily". After awhile he considered it home and wanted to stay with his Dad. I would see him every weekend. I remarried a year later to a wonderful man. We have been together almost 20 years. My ex remarried shortly after I did. All of a sudden it was made very difficult for me to see my son. When I would go to pick him up I was told he was at a friends house or had a project due at school Monday. I am not a confrontational person at all so I did not push the issue. I know now I should have fought harder to see him. Looking back I realize that I made a lot of mistakes but can't go back in time to correct them. I am a facebook friend of his girlfriend. She recently told me that he feels like I abandoned him,one day just "dropping him off at his Dad's house". I was truly shocked that he felt that way and tried to reach out and talk with him about his feelings. He will not return any of my calls or texts. I would like to know if you have any ideas on what I should do to help me reconnect with my son. I am in a lot of pain. Thanks

    1. I have a bad feeling about offering you any suggestions, anon, considering the page that you landed on and chose to comment on. Did you read this post, or just the title, before scrolling down to share your story?

      I don't know that I can offer you much advice, save for this: Look within yourself for answers. I think the information you've supplied here is severely lacking in details, and that's where I feel the truth is. How does one "seem to" cut you out of their life? Has he cut off contact with you, or not?

      I find it odd that you are facebook friends with his girlfriend, even though you feel that he has cut you out of his life. I find odd your description that it "suddenly" became difficult for you to see your son. I don't think there is anything strange or unusual about a child or young adult not being available to spend time with his parents for legitimate reasons like "spending time with his friends" or "doing school projects." Are you implying that either he or his father was lying about his whereabouts so that you could not see him?

      This -->...I realize that I made a lot of mistakes but can't go back in time to correct them" <-- is one hell of a shitty excuse. And it's lame. I doubt your son wants you to correct the shit you did in the past. I imagine he wants a heartfelt apology and REAL efforts at change.

      You want my advice? DON'T copy and paste the form letter above and send it to the poor guy. Ex-communicate yourself from anyone he has a close relationship with out of respect for his privacy and his apparent decision to have space. And most importantly, stop lying to yourself. Given what you have said here, I don't have much pity for you and if that's what you're looking for, my blog isn't the place to find it.

      I don't have all the answers. Why don't you put some real effort into making changes in your life and seeking answers on a much deeper level than having some anonymous blogger tell you what to do to make it all better.

  27. Jonsie,
    I stumbled upon this blog and I am shocked and disheartened by the negativity in it. Trust me, you will waste your time if you try to answer this because I will not read it as I will not come back this way again. But then again it seems you have a lot of time to waste just spewing so much venom and being so judgmental so I send you a blessing hoping that some day you will see the light.


    2. Kennett Square Pennsylvania spent no more time here than the time it took to write this comment, and spent exactly zero time anywhere else on my blog. So the observation that this is a "negative" blog took all of several seconds to decide.

      And I'M the judgmental one? Woo Ha.

      Fuckin' nutter.

    3. Dear Jonsi

      When I read the spleen you express, I feel sorry for you. Are you happy to spread your own malcontent around......?Clearly you have deep issues (rejection? jealousy? insecurity?) which you have generalised completely to all mothers....... I suggest you seek help as you are clearly suffering. Or rather more help. I only expect now for the spleen to be directed at me. Just because you shout a lot doesn't make you right.....maybe you are deafening your own voice. Peace be with you eventually.

  28. I love it when people come here just to tell me I should be discussing unicorns and shitting rainbows.

  29. OH MY JEEBUS. "shocked and disheartened". Because, your opinion matters to anyone but yourself, 'Anonymous August 1, 2013 at 3:48 PM'?

    All trolls will me mercilessly mocked. BY ALL OF US. It's like walking down the religion isle at a Barnes & Noble and then writing the company a letter telling them you were completely offended by the book titles.

    Get out of the ACoN section, asshole. Head over to the Young Adult section, read some Sweet Valley High. You're in over your head. This is where THINKERS congregate. You want to be in the shallow end. (see what I did there??)

  30. I see the problem very clearly. You, the DIL, are smack dab in the middle of the estrangement. Get out of the way. Let you husband think for himself. Don't comment for all the world to see your spite and venom.
    I have no doubt your child will model you one day ~ finally you will understand how it feels. Estrangement is one of the deepest griefs in the world. Bless your little pea pickin heart.

  31. My son and I have had an on and off thing for years. I found your blog and read through most of your posts and it has really opened my eyes to the other side of the issue. Seems that most of you really want to totally end your relationships with your parents...and most of us want to figure out how to keep you in our lives. So I am asking for help....I love my son and truly miss having him in my life...but should I stop trying to make amends and just try to live my life without him... Is trying the wrong thing to be doing?

  32. When I first read this comment I thought I'd been recommended a blog about incestuous relationships. Phew! Relieved to see the topic is what I was expecting. What a strange way to describe a parent son relationship, "on and off thing".

    1. Hi Campbell,

      I got the same feeling from that phrase. It's very inappropriate, given the context of the the subject matter. I wrote an entire post dedicated solely to Bern's comment above:

      I have often found the the lines are blurred when it comes to narc relationships within FOOs. Sometimes they are borderline incestuous.

  33. Jonsi- take my advice and get help. Serious help.Please.

  34. I've now managed to see it all with this blog...Jonsi the foul mouthed disrespectful epitome of the millennial self entitled bitch. Your lack of empathy is chilling and your filthy ripostes to others who are in pain shows you to be an empathyless absolute top class c**t. Lol go on be predictable and give me one of your flippant shallow and very nasty retorts..and see how I wouldn't give a diddly shit. You're a little snotty bully. You could only have empathy if you had a heart. Which you clearly don't have. But you have a shit load of nasty ugly smugness..just know that Karma is real..and your heartlessness will return to you. Now go and exercise your hatefilled little fingers on a nasty response to this..Something as intelligent as all your other responses like oooh hey I don't give a f**k ooh I'm so cool I don't rate your shit stoopid..Ooh tell someone who gives a're like the pathetic sick little bully kid in the school yard..and no you don't come across as come across as very petty very hateful very mean and very be typical! make my day with a sniping snotty snide comment or nasty insult..and hey be true to your lovely self! Go on..give me another laugh at how predictable you will be. Ugh..

  35. Lol you only approve the ones that boost your vile ego likely?

    1. The only comments I don't post are those that reveal identities. Otherwise, it's all game.

      It is funny that you call me foul- mouthed though. Your comment is riddled with swears. But you do you, Lu.

  36. Have fun manufacturing chaos, you bunch of douche canoes!

    1. I mean, you do realize the post you commented on is from 2011, right? And I've not been actively writing on my blog for about two years? And the comments you are replying to are 4+ years old? And you are coming on here solely to name-call and just be plain nasty?

      So, you wanna rethink the notion that it's us bloggers that are "manufacturing chaos," Sugar Tits?